Do I Prefer to Live in a Godless Universe?

It's argued that I reject Christianity because I prefer to live my life apart from God. Balderdash! Do I really prefer to live in a universe that is cold and uncaring, having only blind indifference toward me as a human being in which I can count on no divine help from outside of it, and no hope of an eternal life with my loved ones? Not a chance. Do I really prefer to reject the dominant religion of my culture to be ostracized by believers and hated for what I believe? No, not at all. Given the idealized version of Christianity that believers accept and defend (minus the ugly and incoherent stuff in the Bible) I would prefer the fantasyland of belief to the hard realities of life if given that choice. The problem is that I must be honest with the evidence and the evidence is that I live in a universe that is cold and uncaring, having only blind indifference toward me as a human being in which I can count on no divine help from outside of it, and no hope of an eternal life with my loved ones.

I was once a believer like most believers today. I did not want to lose my faith just like they do not. The evidence forced me to leave the fold against my preferences.

38 comments:

Furtz said...

Yup! you are going to have to face up to it. He/she does not exist as I have met her/him and he/she told me so.

Steven Bently said...

There's not a person living on this planet that would not revere a loving god that showed his love and kindness daily without having to threaten people to love him back unless he send them to hell.

This nonsense of believing on him and his virgin birth son is total nonsense and a waste of time.

It should be obvious to any clear thinking person that the bible is nothing more than man-made fables and myths passed down from generation to generation that was started from people suffering from schizophrenia.

LadyAtheist said...

Not to mention, being part of a comfortably large majority, having all your major life changes marked by centuries-long traditions, and having a place to go to that offers social events and a network of friends.

Who wouldn't trade that in for a life within a despised minority with no cultural traditions?

Lvka said...

And who in their right mind would commit their whole life to a possibility?


Since that possibility leads one to a beautiful lifestyle, I don't understand the observation. What did you mean by it?

Ryan Anderson said...

Well, for me, my disbelief has next to nothing to do with "preference".

I really, really, really tried to keep believing after the scales fell off my eyes. To no avail.


But I think the "preference" argument for theism is one of the weakest and reveals some inherent dishonesty.

Who cares if a belief offers a satisfying worldview if it's not true...

Chuck O'Connor said...

Lvka

Are you arguing that adopting christianity is a lifestyle preference? If so, then I can't disagree with you. The question remains however if that preference provides the best path to truth and reality.

Papalinton said...

For the vast majority of believers, they are introduced to god from infancy. The inculcation of the tenets of one's religion is founded on the long and sustained training and instruction that has been pursued since childhood. As one can appreciate, there has been considerable research in how children learn and reasons for the young developing brain to be so amenable to learning and experiencing. The concept of god is introduced through enculturation. As children mature and become more sophisticated in their thinking capabilities it is then they are able to experience god. However, by then the groundwork has all been completely laid out. And much of that experience is not grounded in logic or reason, rather it is a given, considered fact. The religious components of one's life are just ARE, something that you take on pretty much as you would any other part of one's daily routine of existence. The result being, most cannot envisage anything different, any alternative, regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, if one considers what drives the other 5+ billion people on the earth who are not christian.

In psychology this is termed 'imprinting', one of the strongest forms of binding that contributes to the learning process in the earliest years. And remember imprinting is notoriously difficult to budge.

I think it was St Francis Xavier who said, "Give me the child for his first seven years and I will give you the man."
“Let children acquire reason and critical thinking, then introduce them to religion, and let them chose for themselves.” What religion has ever said that? [They would not dare.]

God is made in the image of man. It was how Bronze Age humans constructed a family in the sky to 'watch' over people on earth. It provided people with comforting security at night and during troubled times to help mitigate the fears and worries they experienced in their lives. Such a development had a wonderful salvific appeal. And it was so easy. All you had to do is 'believe'.

busterggi said...

Lvka - just which Christian lifestyle is the REAL one?

Pentecostal fundimental holy rolling?

Liberal Lutheranism?

Conservative Catholicism?

Jehovah witnessing from door to door?

Mormon missionarying to burn off polygamous energy/

Mormon fundimentalism w/ practicing polygamy?

Baptist self-righteousness?

Which is it? Or is it one of the other 10,000 or so Christian sects?

GearHedEd said...

Steven Bently said,

"...It should be obvious to any clear thinking person that the bible is nothing more than man-made fables and myths passed down from generation to generation that was started from people suffering from schizophrenia."

And ergot hallucinations.

GearHedEd said...

“Let children acquire reason and critical thinking, then introduce them to religion, and let them chose for themselves.”

That's what happened to me; I missed the appointment at the imprinter's...

Clare said...

and which Bible in the "real" Bible? The Vatican Bible, the Sinai Bible, the Catholic Bible, the King James version, the Mormon bible etc etc.

LadyAtheist said...

Lvka if all the perks of Christianity & the lifestyle went away, would you still be a Christian?

cneil said...

It's not a matter of 'preference'. It's a matter of what is.

Lvka said...

John,

just who exactly do you think you are, not answering me when I'm talking to you? God!? :D

Steven Bently said...

Imprinting is the key word here.

I remember hearing about a baby duck that hatched out and the first thing it saw was a cat and so it followed the cat around thinking the cat was it's real mother.

Same thing happens with religious beliefs, hearing them for the first time thinking they're really true.

Jim said...

Luka,

Your blog posts are truly insipid turds of non-thinking.

What are you--like 14 years old?

John is right not to waste his time on your posts.

Apologize if I'm harsh--I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but now that I've seen the puddle deep level of your thinking in the past month or so, I think it's a waste of time for anyone to respond to you.

If you want to have a dialog, then make meaningful comments and ask relevant questions and stop with the whiny attitude.

By the way--I don't know if I speak for all atheists, but I can assure you of the following:

I don't care if the religious life is BEAUTIFUL--I care if it's TRUE!.

I don't care if belief in God gives a person HOPE--I care if it's TRUE!

I don't care if belief in God helps people get through life--I care if it's TRUE!

I don't care if belief in Jesus Christ leads to an uplifting life of joyous anticipation of spending eternity with my Lord and Savior--I care if it's TRUE!

Get it?

Regards

goprairie said...

Actually, to be honest, I DO prefer a godless universe. I prefer that the help and support I get will be from real life tangible people who will realiably react when I ask. I prefer that what happens be predictable and caused by nature and other people. I prefer knowing that what I do and the way I live will be returned to me in kind rather than hoping to be pleasing to some invisible unknowable yet all powerful being. I prefer not having to waste time thinking about how to make the religion concepts I had been taught fit into the observable scientifically predicatable world. I am happier, more confident, more curious, more logical in my thinking, more compassionate, more involved with other people. There is some minor inconvenience in not 'fitting in' with certain sort of people and not sharing in some aspects of the larger society, but the postive benefits more than outweigh those minor irritations.

Lvka said...

Jim,

sorry to disappoint, but I still don't get John's point: what exactly was he objecting to?

Gandolf said...

"Do i Prefer to Live in a Godless Universe"

Considdering that its highly likely if Gods honestly had existed, they most probably might have been a little peeved off with some actions of their follower,and so more likely also even been at least a little interested in possibly setting a few wayward followers right!, on some matters.

Which would have meant warped and often quite nasty followers would have been much less likely to even exist.Making life a lot easier in many ways for ALL of us.

Id say having a Godless Universe has really become something thats strongly negative, rather than ever being anything that could honestly be considdered as anything thas a real positive?.

Those who think you feel this way,need to feel its so,to try and bolster their own faith,even if it be by false thoughts.

Lvka said..."Since that possibility leads one to a beautiful lifestyle, I don't understand the observation. What did you mean by it?"

Well ..if it leads to "one" beautiful lifestyle,then so far its most often caused many split lifestypes a plenty.Indeed that is factually how come, we now do happen to have Catholic,Anglican,Baptist,JWs.\,Mormon,Presbyterian,
pentecostal,Westbro baptist,Open Brethren,Closed Brethren,Sideways Brethren,Zig Zag Brethren,Orthodox, Unorthodox,Islam,Hinduism you name them we now have them all.And more and more specialist little faith groups forming each and every year also.

Lvka it is really only a faithful illusion!, that its supposedly led us to "one" beautiful lifestyle, unless that is you honestly considder a split and divided lifestyle, is actually whats should be considdered as being whats "ONE" beautiful lifestyle.

You think it is Lvka?

Lvka said...

Uhm... I said "it leads one to", not "it leads to one"...

Apart from that, as far as our earthly life is concerned, I don't see moral teaching differ from one denomination to another.

Chuck O'Connor said...

Our earthly life is all the reputable evidence we have for any life Lvka. And would you withhold medical care to your children if they were suffering because your belief told you to? If not then your moral conclusion is vastly different from a recognized Christian denomination.

Lvka said...

Somehow I don't think John had this particular distinctive belief of that particular denomination in mind...

Chuck O'Connor said...

Lvka

Since when are you a mind reader? You expose your self-centeredness with this response. Do you always reason from solipsism?

Breckmin said...

"It's argued that I reject Christianity because I prefer to live my life apart from God."

"prefer to" here only addresses the flesh and the sin nature and does not take into account possible "spiritual deception" which can influence a person.
"It's argued that I reject Christianity
I would argue that anyone who charges you with such an over simplification is guilty of failing to understand critical thinking with respect to Christianity, its basic assumptions, and the inevitable face value contradictions which are easily explained when you employ wisdom from the Holy Creator.

It is VERY important to learn how to navigate through all of the anthropomorphisms, over simplications, false inductions, and particularly the imperfection in particular "meanings" of words we use when it comes to hyper-technicality.

Until you see what is going on with all of the "imperfections" in our communication and the spiritual/physical dynamic which complicates everything (with respect to critical thinking),

you are probably not going to seek the Holy Creator and His Great Love for you.

I DO question everything. But when I question I have resolved to question with REVERENCE to a Holy Creator Who is concluded and not just assumed.

If I didn't question everyting...then I wouldn't be able to answer your questions to my own satisfaction.

Spiritual relastionship is sine qua non in corroborative interpretation of evidence.

Assumptions + Observation/Data = Conclusion.

Wrong assumptions will lead to deception. Q E

Gandolf said...

Lvka said... "Uhm... I said "it leads one to", not "it leads to one"..."

Sorry my mistake !, i had thought you were Catholic

Lvka said.."Apart from that, as far as our earthly life is concerned, I don't see moral teaching differ from one denomination to another."

Oh so your God hates fags and hates America,and kills witches too ??

Holy guacamole

GearHedEd said...

"No, no. It's SPELT Raymond Luxury-Yacht, but it's pronounced "Throat Warbler Mangrove..."

GearHedEd said...

"I DO question everything. But when I question I have resolved to question with REVERENCE to a Holy Creator Who is concluded and not just assumed."

Concluded only in your own mind.

Steven Bently said...

Breckmin said,

"you are probably not going to seek the Holy Creator and His Great Love for you."


Why are we supposed to seek a creator? We cannot search the entire universe for a creator when we are earth bound.

By your comments, you question absolutely NOTHING!!!!

Do you ever read any of your ignorant comments before you type them???

Lvka said...

No, Chuck, but I am a reader... and judging from what John wrote, it does not seem that he had such restrictive, peculiar sects in mind. His statements are broader, more general.

Chuck O'Connor said...

So when you say that you don't see moral teaching differ from one denomination to another YOU are not including Christian Scientists? If so then your strong claim is easily defeated by showing your argument from ignorance. Morals do differ from denomination to denomination (unless you think all Christians would withhold necessary medical care from children) and your claim is moot.

Chuck O'Connor said...

Brec

You need to make it your mission to reinstitute Esperanto so the problem of language can be ended.

GearHedEd said...

And re: Chuck's comment, maybe then we could see why songs of praise mean anything besides being organized noise.

Lvka said...

Since there are two billion Christians on the face of the earth, and only 400,000 "Christian Scientists", please "excuse" me if I don't consider them in any way relevant..

This being said, my (initial) question my addressed to John, not to anyone else.

Chuck O'Connor said...

Lvka,

You need to modify your claim. All I need to do is show a mere possibility to invalidate it and I did.

This is a public forum and if you want a private conversation send an email to John.

Lvka said...

Not private, but when all except the one to whom the question is addressed feel the need to interfere, it's getting tiresome..


You need to modify your claim.


All the two billion Christians, except your 400,000 "Christian Scientists" -- better? :-\

Breckmin said...

Why are we supposed to seek a creator? We cannot search the entire universe for a creator when we are earth bound."

This doesn't mean "look for an Infinite Personal/Spiritual/Conscious Existence /Creator (clearly imperfect with respect to the Living God) who you can NOT "see" physically because He is Infinite.

What we are referring to is seeking God's Truth.... and seeking Him in a personal way as to experience a relationship with Him. That can only come through Jesus Christ (the Man that God became).

Seeking to be restored to a relationship with God because you "realize" (come to your senses) that you have objective guilt of His Law and that He is a Holy God is just one aspect of salvation.

If you over-simplify and isolate connected premises...then you are questioning without wisdom. It is only through questioning that you will begin to see how you are processing information incorrectly (clearly an imperfect statement since I used "only" which doesn't address concepts like conviction and humility).

Breckmin said...

Chuck,
it is still an imperfect language developed by humans who are learning. Imperfections, inexactisms and equivocations, etc are still going to exist until God gives us the Holy perfect language that we will speak some day in heaven for all of eternity.

First God is dealing with corruption in this temporary creation and learning/spanking/consequences of the byproduct of choices, etc.

God isn't going to have this mess in heaven. Question everything.

Peasantess said...

Divinity doesn't stand a chance against those who default and plead to probability.