Helen Fisher on Why We Love and Cheat

The provocatively titled blog by Leah Elliott Hauge called The Whore of All the Earth first linked to this brief but incredible TED talk. Fisher tells us of the science of lust, romantic love, and attachment, and it blows away the ancient Biblical understandings in several ways. View it and then let's count the number of ways this science destroys Biblical understandings, shall we? Once again it's Science vs Religion and once again believers will denigrate science. Go figure. How many times must they do this to believe?

23 comments:

John said...

Science hasn't proven why we do things. Different people do things for different reasons. I seek after happiness. I like to avoid pain unless it involves me recieving pleasure at the end of it. I find more pleasure in God's holy love than I do the fleeting pleasures of sin. That's why I do it. This isn't selfishness either. Selfisness seeks it's own private pleasure at the expence of others. Love seeks it's joy in the holy joy of the beloved.

Joshua Jung said...

I find more pleasure in a beautiful sunset than in the fleeting pleasures of alcohol.

That doesn't mean anything, except that I like sunsets more than alcohol.

So you like your delusion more than reality. People do that all the time.

John said...

Joshua,

I also find more pleasure in sunsets than alcohol. God to me is a reality. His holy love is what satisfies me. It satisfies me more than the fleeting pleasures of sin. That's reality. Cheating on your wife or husband is just ugly to me. It doesn't satisfy me like holy joy does.

Chris said...

"So you like your delusion more than reality. People do that all the time."

How do you know that his belief in God is a delusion? It annoys me when people are so certain!

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Joshua wrote, "I find more pleasure in a beautiful sunset than in the fleeting pleasures of alcohol.

That doesn't mean anything"

Wow, you're 'right', Joshua - it's much better to suffer the effects of alcohol then to turn towards something more inspirational - this kind of "logic" is just one more exhibit A of why I'm glad I woke up from atheism!

Joshua Jung said...

"How do you know that his belief in God is a delusion? It annoys me when people are so certain!'

Then it should annoy you equally that he is so certain his God is a reality.

The very fact that a person can be so certain about something like that without evidence tells me they *are* deluded.

Besides that, I know the exact emotions and certainty he is talking about.

Joshua Jung said...

"
Wow, you're 'right', Joshua - it's much better to suffer the effects of alcohol then to turn towards something more inspirational - this kind of "logic" is just one more exhibit A of why I'm glad I woke up from atheism!"

Dude, your comment doesn't follow from what I said. At all.

"it's much better to suffer the effects of alcohol then to turn towards something more inspirational"

That isn't what I said. I said it is BETTER to turn toward something inspirational - like a sunset - than alcohol. At least it is better for me, because I like it more.

Joshua Jung said...

MMM and Cole, one final comment.

A simple question

You both are certain of God's love for you.

How am I supposed to distinguish the truthfulness of your understanding of God from the truthfulness of the understanding of a Muslim who would blow me up with a bomb? That Muslim has just as much certainty as you do.

How do I determine which one of you is right? You both are equally certain. So certain, in fact, that you would die for your beliefs. But the things you hold to be absolutely true contradict each other!

How am I supposed to know which one of you is right?

How are you supposed to know?

Stephanie said...

John, reading these comments from the Christians lead me to do one thing: FACEPALM!!! As predicted, they degenerate science and give all the glory to the god that resides only in their consciousnesses. You know that god I'm talking about: the god they had planted (as most atheists did) as a tiny seed during childhood that was then cultivated by the church and their parents with threats of hell-fire and promises of heaven. Then they reach adulthood where they could make this god into the being of their dreams! An all loving, knowing, powerful god that loves them. How fantastic for them! Sigh.

Again, Christians, your "personal revelations" are not evidence that a god exists. My new 2010 SS/RS Camaro makes me feel joyful and satisfied. My heart pounds every time I get behind the wheel of my orange metalic beauty. I dream about it too (not kidding). I know it exists because it's in my garage. Eating chocolate gives me great pleasure as well. My husband, well, he satisfies me in other ways (wink). And I'm pretty sure he's real and not imaginary...lol. But these are my personal revelations. Because I experience them doesn't make the 2010 Camaro the only car you should buy or chocolate the only food to eat or my husband, the best lover there is. It's relative to me.

Your personal revelations are yours and yours alone. You can shout from the mountaintops that your god is real because you feel him in your heart and hear him in your mind. I'm happy you can find love and joy in your personal, invisible god. Good for you! What ever floats your boat! However, I prefer to look in the real world, the one I wake up in every day, for pleasure, satisfaction, and love. I look to REAL, touchable and see-able people for love, comfort and guidance. No one but you can see and feel your imagined and unprovable being of perfection, you call god.

Oh, and science has proven a lot about human behavior. YOU choose to dismiss it or ignore it, like most Fundie Christians do because it conflicts with your precious beliefs. Those who don't become Atheists, right John?

Anonymous said...

Cole, I'm getting tired of you. Deal with the video or stay away from commenting any further here (unless we just cross-posted now).

Anonymous said...

Thanks Stephanie, yes!

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Hi Josh -- You asked, "How do I determine which one of you is right? You both are equally certain"

For one thing, I'm not asking you to look at me as the source of righteousness - I'm pointing towards One Who loves humanity and that includes those who are in enmity against Him. That is pretty all-inclusive, divine love which is antagonistic towards our conditons which allow for castigating and annihilating those who offend us.

As for suicidal bombers or those who deem murder necessary to annihilate those who do not conform to their standard of acceptance, I am quite certain they are acting consistently with a command that somehow says, "hate your enemies and justify cooperating in the mistreatment of one another". There is One Who said to love one's enemies - sounds different than what I've experienced with ppl - sounds divine to me.

Also, Joshua, I don't know if you're aware, but in reference to your comments to Cole, you have a denigrating approach towards what is found to be a constructive avenue for him. You wrote this, "That isn't what I said. I said it is BETTER to turn toward something inspirational - like a sunset - than alcohol. At least it is better for me, because I like it more."

Perhaps you have overcome alcohol, but you have only succeeded in becoming conceited about your success. Not a very good transition from alienating ppl with alcohol abuse to alienating ppl with moral conceit - whoppdeedo! My hero! Not....
3M

Piratefish said...

Haha, wonder how much the church reference Fisher's research and say, "thank you for the new insights about love and relationships, we'll use these info. to help our congregants." :) Instead they'll keep teaching the same old stuff that are contrary to human nature, as they do to all other findings of science.

John said...

Joshua,

I rely on the scripture that says of God: "Vengeance is mine I will repay. Rather if your enemy is hungry feed him." My God doesn't tell me to blow up my enemies with a bomb. The day of judgement is reserved for the end of history. I am to love my enemies.

John,

I thought I did deal with the video. I don't think we can say this is why we do what we do. Different people do things for different reasons. I seek after pleasure. I find more joy in God's holy joy than I do the fleeting pleasures of sin. I do what I do because it makes me happy.

Joshua Jung said...

MMM

Your massive comment was a complete red herring.

I asked you how I can know that what you claim is true, not whether I'm appealing to you as some form of righteous standard. Give me a break!

Cole

"I rely on the scripture"

What scripture and why? I want to know that this scripture you speak about is trustworthy and not an invention of man. Please show me.

John said...

Joshua,


I am to love my enemy. Not blow them up. The day of judgement is reserved for the end of history.



Hebrews 10:30

For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."


Romans 12

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;

if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.

In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”e

21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

tonya said...

Absolutely wonderful video!
They (theists) denigrate science simply so it fits inside their box of "comfort". They fear to let in even one tiny piece of "hmmm, well, that kinda’ makes sense..." because to do so begins the slippery slide into acknowledging that their whole life/outlook thus far could have been built on a lie. And that brings up all sorts of ugliness about who lied to them (parents/friends/church?) or how “gullible” they were.
What they can't seem to accept is SO WHAT if it was a lie? Who cares if you fell for it? Like falling down, you pick yourself up and keep going. We all fall down sometime. Get up. Big flippin' deal that your past assumptions might be WRONG! It doesn't change who you were before, it merely allows the ability to think for yourself and accept your actions as your own. Truly your own. How can that be anything but good? If I do something good, “I” did it (yay for me!), if I do something bad, “I” did it (satan/demons didn’t make me.) I accept responsibility for 100% of my actions. I am good because I want to, not because of some notion that I HAVE to or I will be punished. They seem to have a difficult (impossible?) time accepting that people can be “good for goodness’ sake”.
I often wonder if that fear is actually a lack of self-confidence. “Hmmm, that science part sounds like it could make sense, but...uuuhhh, no… I can’t handle what that might mean! I’ll push it away because I’m not strong enough to allow for the possibility that I may have to “go it alone.” Remember the old “this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs” commercial? It sounds like they’re afraid that it will be “this is me with god, this is me without” and the ‘without’ is some alcohol/drug/sex/immoral haze of corruption, lust and deprivation. Cody’s comment says “I find more pleasure in God's holy love than I do the fleeting pleasures of sin.” Is the relation really that direct? Are you completely incapable of leading a decent, ethical life without god? I have FAITH in you, in human nature, that you would be the same person without god. You would love the same people, feel the same hurts, and seek the same pleasure in sunsets. There are millions of people like me out here leading fulfilling, rewarding, authentic lives because it’s in our NATURE to do so. Not out of fear. We donate both time and money to help others. We give of ourselves for the benefit of the whole (whole human race, planet, community, nation, etc…), not just the benefit of ourselves. We raise our children to think for themselves and they will grow up to be compassionate, worthwhile and contributing members of society without fear.
I would say to all theists TRUST IN YOURSELF. Trust that you can be good and decent because it is right and it feels good all on its own. You will still lead a fulfilling life. Still have impact on those around you. Still teach your children the way to be a good human.
PS -- There are also those who will never allow science in because they fear that we will point fingers at them and say "we told you so" because THAT IS WHAT THEY WOULD DO if the situations were reversed. What they need to realize is we aren't like that, in part, because we are already free of the hypocrisy and lies and guilt and know that to be good does not require a god, it merely requires the decision. TO. BE. GOOD.

Joshua Jung said...

Cole, you're ridiculous.

Thanks for completely ignoring everything I said.

You're like a parrot.

Do you even have the capacity to form an original thought of your own?

If God exists, by not thinking for yourself, you are throwing away His greatest gift to you.

John said...

Joshua,

I thought that's what you wanted. You asked me what scriptures and:

"What scripture and why? I want to know that this scripture you speak about is trustworthy and not an invention of man. Please show me."

The scripture seems obvious to me. It seems like the right thing to do to my enemy instead of bombing him. How do I know it's divine? The Internal Testamony of the Holy Spirit. I was also told that this teaching of loving your enemies is unique to Christianity.

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Joshua responded to my response, "Your massive comment was a complete red herring."

Just a friendly awareness alert, but my response was consistent with what I believe. If you do not agree with it, that's fine.

3M

Brad Haggard said...

Thanks for the video, John. It's a good summary of what we know right now about brain chemistry.

Just one question (I may be dense here):

How exactly is this opposed to what the Bible teaches about sexual desire?

John said...

John,

I would definitly agree with her about the seretonin reuptake inhibitors and how they supress the sexual drive. I use to take those kinds of antidepressents and it did that to me. Not all medicines effect everybody the same though. I use to also take seroquil for my schizo-affective disorder that I have been labeled with and it would knock me out. But there was also a lady I met in rehab that was on three times the dosage and it wasn't doing anything for her. She was walking arround complaning of seeing shadows. Different medicines don't affect everybody in the same way. I can say when I stopped taking the medicine I did get romantic feelings towards a particular girl. But I never got involved with her sexually.

Unknown said...

Cole said:
scripture says this that and the other

Joshua said:
How do I choose between your scriptures and Muslim scriptures?

Cole said:
scripture says this that and the other

Joshua isn't asking what scripture says, he's asking why he should believe your culturally selected scriptures instead of Muslim scripture. In order to do that, you're going to have to appeal to something besides scripture and personal revelation.