Dr. David Eller Interviewed About His Sure to be a Classic Book, Atheism Advanced





Eller's book Atheism Advanced should be in every atheist library. I thought I had read up on most every issue concerning the philosophy of religion before reading his book, but I was wrong, dead wrong. His passionate analysis is significant and thought provoking in every single chapter I've read so far (thru chapter six). I think Eller should be the new spokesman for atheism and invited to speak at every atheist conference. I think Christians need to deal with the power of his arguments.

In my book I argue against a specific religious viewpoint likened to a small limb growing out of the very large tree of religion. I'm not arguing against animism, animatism, nor ancestor worship, ethical non-theism (like Buddhism) nor the many polytheistic gods and goddesses, nor do I argue against other monotheisms like the several branches of Judaism or Islam, nor do I argue against whatever original Christianities believed, nor liberalism, nor deism. No. I'm arguing against a small sect in time, evangelical Christianity. And among evangelicals themselves there is no consensus about true Christianity, relegating certain other branches as "cults." Christianity is best understood as a "local Christianity," one situated in a particular time and place held by particular localized people. What a particular Christian believes is a hybrid coming from schism after schism and the conclusions of hindsight through the process of syncretism. Eller effectively argues that Christians believe in a local Christianity or no Christianity at all.

While I argue specifically about the dominant American fundamentalist or evangelical view in my book, Dr. Eller argues against religion itself. Along the way Eller advances (or promotes) our understanding of just what atheism is. [Hint, atheism is not just a view that stands in contrast with the dominant religious view of any particular society. Atheism in Hindu countries would be a-Hinduist, while atheism in Christian countries would be considered a-Christian. But this cannot be what atheism is about!] We atheists have allowed the dominant religious view of our societies to set the definition for what atheism is, and even the language we use to debate the issues, Eller argues. Why is it that most debates in western cultures are debates on such topics as “Christianity vs. Atheism”? Eller wants us to think in larger terms than that. From reading what Eller says the real debate should be set in terms of “Christianity vs. Itself,” since there are so many branches of it, or “Christianity vs. All Other Religions,” since that’s the proper way to think about religion (can you imagine a Christian wanting to debate that topic with an atheist??). Eller writes: “Nothing is more destructive to religion than other religions; it is like meeting one’s own anti-matter twin.” (p. 233).

Eller also argues that there is no specific “Science vs. Religion” problem either, since some religions do not believe in any personal god, and because religious believers are not against most scientific disciplines. Believers are only opposed to those scientific disciplines that come into direct conflict with their own specific religious claims. Some religions don’t even have a creation theory! Surely religious believers are not opposed to quantum theory or gravitational theory or meteorology or botany or gemology (the study of gems), for starters. They are only opposed to specific claims within physics and biology when science crosses over into the arbitrary and sacred/profane boundary of specific religious claims. Religious believers are not opposed to science as a whole, just some aspects of it! So the debate is not about science vs. religion but rather about specific local religions vs specific scientific claims.

There is much more to his book. Every person interested in these issues (both believer and non-believer) should get and read and discuss it. I consider his book essential for understanding these issues. Eller writes well, is passionate, intelligent, and offers very powerful arguments against religion as a whole. In the process he more than adequately advances atheism. This book is destined to be a classic work.

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One last note. I wish people who interviewed such eminent scholars would know the right questions to ask, stop interrupting them, and stop using the interview to advance their own pet peeves.

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

Atheism Advanced is AMAZING. It is really giving me some great, new ideas, which I am grateful for. As much as I love other atheist books, this is one of the first ones where I stepped back and said "Huh, I'd never even thought of that!" I really utilize the concept of making people define what they are talking about, it does help to get to the heart of the matter.

Andrew said...

I'm going to try to start again fresh and put that imposter stuff behind me. My apologies for being so touchy. I really took a look at this video with the best open mind I could muster. I'll have to get back to you. It was thought provoking.

Bart said...

I liked your comment at the bottom. The interviewer leaves much to be desired. I struggled through the first vid, and halfway through the second. I got the feeling that he was straining to be respected by Eller.

Either way, the goal of the interview succeed, I ordered the book. Looking forward to hearing the uninterrupted Eller.

jUUggernaut said...

I'm currently reading Atheism Advanced and I can't stress enough how important his perspective as an anthropologist is. He shows that not only is the number of religions staggering (two to three added every day!) but also shows that there are different categories of religions, that don't necessarily have deities, or those that do, but they're not worshipped but feared, etc pp.

One of his aphorisms, that "They can't all be true but that they can very well all be false", is thrown into sharp relief once one realizes what staggering 'wealth' of whacky ideas is out there, and is believed just as fervently and baselessly than the 'normal' Christian nonsense that we are so used to.

My only gripe with the book is that it came out through a totally invisible publisher and won't get the attention it deserves.

Anonymous said...

Andrew, if you do in fact have a change of heart I'm thankful and will welcome you into the world of civil discourse.

T said...

"From reading what Eller says the real debate should be set in terms of “Christianity vs. Itself”..."

Wow, it's kind of exciting for me to see that. It's precisely where my own thoughts had been taking me lately. I don't have much opportunity for debate on religion (I live in Japan, where blessedly few people want to bother me with religious nonsense), but watching debates overseas, I too feel that the atheist side too often lets itself be dragged into the false "atheism vs [my religion]" setup.

In many of those debates, it seems it should be easy (well, from my armchair QB perspective...) to point out how the theist's claims are contradicted by theism. That is, for almost any claim the theist makes, the majority of religious believers will object - sometimes violently so. If the atheist wants to object to the claims too, he really needs to get in line behind the crowds of angry theists!

It's preposterous for any believer to claim to represent religion, when his specific beliefs can never represent more than a minority. I'd love to see atheist debaters use that as a weapon more often!

Greatly looking forward to reading Atheism Advanced.

Defaithed http://www.defaithed.com

Unknown said...

Hello Friends here at DC:

Mr Horvitz should not have hogged the air time to schlep his opinions. Dr Eller's lecture would have been far more enlightening. I need his book.

google wrote: It's preposterous for any believer to claim to represent religion, when his specific beliefs can never represent more than a minority. I'd love to see atheist debaters use that as a weapon more often!

I was listening to Col. Robert G. Ingersoll's lecture on Hell part 1 today and coincidentally, he made just that argument.

In my judgment, every religion that stands by appealing to miracles is dishonor. [sic] Every religion in the world has denounced every other religion as a fraud. That proves to me that they all tell the truth--about others. Why? Suppose Mr. Smith should tell Mr. Brown that he--Smith--saw a corpse get out of the grave, and that when he first saw it, it was covered with the worm's of death, and that in his presence it was reclothed in healthy, beautiful flesh. And then suppose Mr. Brown should tell Mr. Smith, "I saw the same thing myself. I was in a graveyard once, and I saw a dead man rise." Suppose then that Smith should say to Brown, "You're a liar," and Brown should reply to Smith, "And you're a liar," what would you think? It would simply be because Smith, never having seen it himself, didn't believe Brown; and Brown, never having seen it, didn't believe Smith had. Now, if Smith had really seen it, and Brown told him he had seen it too, then Smith would regard it as a corroboration of his story, and he would regard Brown as one of his principal witnesses. But, on the contrary, he says, "You never saw it." So, when man says, "I was upon Mount Sinai, and there I met God, and he told me, 'Stand aside and let me drown these people';" and another man says to him, "I was upon a mountain, and there I met the Supreme Brahma," and Moses says, "That's not true," and contends that the other man never did see Brahma, and he contends that Moses never did see God, that is in my judgment proof that they both speak truly.

Every religion, then, has charged every other religion with having been an unmitigated fraud; and yet, if any man had ever seen the miracle himself, his mind would be prepared to believe that another man had seen the same thing. Whenever a man appeals to a miracle he tells what is not true. Truth relies upon reason, and the undeviating course of all the laws of nature.


- INGERSOLL'S LECTURE ON HELL from The Project Gutenberg EBook of Lectures of Col. R. G. Ingersoll, Volume I, by Robert Green Ingersoll

Emanuel Goldstein said...

Thanks John, I'll try to live up to your impeccable standards of HONESTY, because you have proved to me, once again, what an HONEST man you are!

LOL!

Anonymous said...

Andrew, your last comment won't win me over. You must prove yourself after months of abuse.

Anthony said...

John,

I do believe that this "Andrew" is the impersonator. Remember we have two Andrews with the same duplicate information of their profiles, one profile account starting with "0265" and the other "1065." The Andrew that complained about being impersonated and then later apologized for thinking it was you was the "1065" Andrew. So, unless we can get some clarification I will begin addressing them as Andrew1065 and Andrew0265 with the assumption that Andrew0265 is the impersonator.

Anonymous said...

Anthony, you're correct. As far as I know they are they one and the same person. Even if not they have both violated the comment policy multiple times.

jUUggernaut said...

This is very disruptive. Please consider not treating everybody with respect. Realize that the internet is the perfect growth medium for the MIWTS (mentally ill with typing skills).
No joke. This is worsened by the fact that much mental illness is a matter of degree, and blogs of a controversial nature attract the borderline cases like flies.
Please stop - by John's own advice - the feeding of the trolls.
Being a heartless atheist I can't even say I'm sorry for them.

Unknown said...

The more I listen to Ingersoll, the more I like him. His lectures are delightful. I am grateful to the person who as a labor of love undertook to read and record the wise Colonel's preaching. Volume one of his lectures are available for free download from librivox.org

Best Regards all

Andrew said...

That last one was my imposter by the way. I'm trying to back off and give you guys some breathing room while I try to get my act together, and I keep getting pulled back in. Take a look at the diferences between my number of posts on my profile and the fake guy (the last andrew post before this one).