A Review of John's Book, Why I Became an Atheist

This is the book I wish I could write.

Loftus includes everything: absurdities, superstitions, interpretations, persuasive psychology, pseudoscience, morality, philosophy, proofs, logistical issues, history, miracles, methodology, prayer, creation, canonization, legendary embellishment, etc. Whereas pop writers like Dawkins and Harris scoff at the obvious stupidity of Christianity, and textual scholars like Ehrman and Price focus on apologetic issues without hardly mentioning that Christianity doesn’t deserve the air of respectability it gets, Loftus tackles both methods.

John does a wonderful job of pointing out how apologists are all extremely confident of their positions even if the contrast among one another, yet he also doesn’t lose sight of the fact that a neutral start for these apologists would never prompt them to offer their conclusions. It is probably the best comprehensive book of the issues I’ve read. Fifteen dollars will net you fifteen hours worth of intense reading. Yes, ninety percent of the material can be found elsewhere, but this is to be expected when there is no true point of concentration in the book. It is a jack of all trades, and Loftus pulls it off beautifully.

Loftus, like very few writers, takes the time to explain why we start our observations “from below” rather than “from above.” Persuasive psychology is briefly mentioned, and since I write on it frequently, I was extremely happy to see it (even if I would have liked to have seen more). What I really support is his focus on fundamental questions, which I believe deconvert more individuals than textual analysis ever could. These questions include why God needs worship, why religions distribute predictably, and why the Bible has no declaration against slavery. I also learned a few things while reading, such as William Lane Craig’s ridiculous arguments for why God has religious diversity (while ignoring the obvious answer of societal conditioning) and Francesco Sizzi’s equally ridiculous arguments for divinity in space.

While ninety-nine percent of this book is fantastic and I could write pages on how great it is, in the interest in balancing praise with criticism, I’ll quickly point out a few things I would have done differently. The personal story (kind of boring, until Linda!) could lead critics to argue that John left for emotional reasons (even though he specifically states what should be obvious: the emotions merely got him thinking). The book isn’t as entertaining as Shermer, Sagan, Mills, etc or as easy to understand at times because it isn’t geared toward a mainstream audience. The text is beyond ninety percent of America because you need some good knowledge of the Bible to grasp all of it. For instance, Uzzah is mentioned in one chapter, but several dozens and pages later, he is mentioned (but not explained) again. If you don’t remember who he is, John’s point is missed at the second mention.

Loftus extensively quotes scholars without briefly mentioning their positions, and there are a slew of them because he has a terrific appreciation for the arguments in the field. He also uses terms that will be unfriendly to beginners (e.g. Pauline). John also made the same choice I did in my first book, which is to make laborious lists that aren’t necessary to make a point (especially on visions). Most readers, I suspect, would become bored with it. In my opinion, he wastes time and paper on the Trinity and bodily resurrections. Arguing over how miracles work plays into the apologetic game. I love his term “chronological snobbery” for why social conservatives are consistently wrong, but it is already known as the “Planck Problem.” He lists Job as intertestamental even though almost all scholars regard it as the earliest book in the Bible. He says historic Japan is “a great [society] by all standards of history,” which I have to take exception with as a student of ancient Japan, since women were possessions, the warrior class could kill without accountability, and foreigners were immediately killed for stepping on Japanese land.

There are some editing issues as well. For example “and1563” on p309 is missing a space (spell check doesn’t look for words with number/letter combinations by default) and “when did he know Jesus had died” is used on p368 instead of “how did he know when Jesus had died” (again, something spell check wouldn’t grab).

None of these complaints really detracts at all from the book. In short, Loftus has left humanity much better than he found it, which is what all nonbelievers can only strive to accomplish.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Jason, thank you so much! This is one of the fairest reviews I think I've seen. It did me good to read it.

Let me comment on a few things.

I mentioned the Testament of Job as intertestamental literature on page 170. Where do you think I mentioned the canonical book of Job as such?

I disagree with your claim that "the text is beyond ninety percent of America" and while it might be above the heads of many people my target audience was the college student. I'd like to hear from others on this question and whether they think you are right.

You also praise me for including "everything" and yet say "he wastes time and paper on the Trinity and bodily resurrections." My aim was to be as comprehensive as I could within the pages of one book.

I'm preparing the text for a possible reprint edition and I am mining it for the typo's and glitches you speak of, so thanks for pointing out a couple of them.

As far as Japan goes, the context (for people who don't know) was that Japan was not influenced by Christianity and yet they had a great society by all standards of history. Maybe I should clarify this. In most historical societies of the past, including the Biblical ones, women were possessions, and those societies barbaric in many ways--all of them. But when we compare these societies to other socities of their time period they were great ones. The full quote on page 408 reads:

In the second place, let me say that anyone who tries to show that no society can be a good society without Christianity needs a history lesson. She needs to study
some of the great societies of the past, like Greece during the golden ages, or the Roman Empire, or several of the dynasties in ancient China, or the Islamic empire under Muhammad, or the historic Japanese culture. None of these societies were influenced by Christianity, but they were great societies by all standards of history. And yes, there was corruption in every one of these societies, just like we see in any
ancient or modern society. But even biblical Judaism and Christian America have had corruption in their societies too.


Again, thanks! Please consider posting this on Amazon for me.

Jason Long said...

John,

The canonical Job is on page 394 unless I greatly misunderstand you. While I like "everything" to be included, I meant "everything of relevance." Still, it was your choice to include the Trinity - I just dislike the discussion. There was one other typo (perhaps). The use of the word "usually" twice in one sentence very early in the book (the second instance may have been for more emphasis, but it doesn't need it - don't remember which page). I still think ancient Japan was more barbaric than ancient Europe, so we'll just have to disagree. I did post the review on Amazon before you asked.

By the way, did you gain inspiration to read Cialdini and Petty & Cacioppo from my blog posts? It sounds like I wrote that paragraph where they're mentioned [not at all an accusation of plagarism, btw]?

Anonymous said...

Jason, the people in intertestamental times drew their inspiration for a life after death from passages like Job 19:26, is what I meant.

I learned from you and Lee Randolph about Cialdini and Petty & Cacioppo, and I thank you both. I quoted their words as you quoted them, yes. I tried to put everything important in the book and that indeed was important.

I had an editor/proofreader at PB who read through each chapter, but you can see the result, and I'm lousy at it.

Jason Long said...

I spoke with the two of them (Cialdini and Petty, I think) through email not long ago. As you would expect, they had some funny things to say about religious beliefs.

Anonymous said...

Mine is on order, it should be here tomorrow :)

Anonymous said...

I tried to order this from amazon UK a while ago, but had some difficulty. I think I'll try again now.

Anonymous said...

Jason, let me revisit your fine review once again. I'm grateful you took the time to read my book and write your review with such glowing recommendations as you have done. Thanks. Nothing in what follows is to undermine my appreciation for what you wrote of my book.

First, I'd appreciate it if you consider deleting the part on Amazon where you claim I say the book of Job is intertestamental literature, since it's clear I don't think that. If you won’t, then you must explain how you derived your conclusion from one sentence even though I clearly have a deep understanding of most of the issues surrounding the Biblical text.

I'd also appreciate knowing what you meant with the following sentence:

Whereas pop writers like Dawkins and Harris scoff at the obvious stupidity of Christianity, and textual scholars like Ehrman and Price focus on apologetic issues without hardly mentioning that Christianity doesn’t deserve the air of respectability it gets, Loftus tackles both methods.

Do you mean I steer a middle ground, or that I incorporate both methods in my book? Or what?

You also said "ninety percent of the material can be found elsewhere," and so I was wondering how much of your book could be found elsewhere. Very few books contain any original ideas, you know. Are you saying my book contains 10% new ideas? If so that’s superior news, and is beyond most books! If you’re merely saying 10% of the material is new to you when you also say “the text is beyond ninety percent of America,” then how much of the material in my book will be new to 90% of America?

And when it comes to 90% of America, are you saying only 10% of Americans can understand every single thing in my book, or that 90% of Americans will be lost even trying to read my book? If it’s the former then I have no problem with that statement, since it can probably be said of any book of this kind. If you mean the latter then I object to this vehemently. Perhaps you should clarify.

You also said “there is no true point of concentration in the book. It is a jack of all trades, and Loftus pulls it off beautifully.”

What did you mean by this? Most readers who have not read my book would conclude, rightly I think, that my book is a bit disorganized, with separate unrelated chapters. Is that what you think?

Anonymous said...

Jason, you said I waste time and paper on the Trinity and bodily resurrections, and then you clarified by saying you want a comprehensive book but that you only want included "everything of relevance."

Given that you've told me elsewhere you think I'm "certainly far more qualified" to write such a book, it's important to state the reasons why you disagree with me when I claim such issues are indeed relevant, and I do.

Anonymous said...

OK, I am taking the “Debunking Christianity” challenge and am considering starting with this book, but I have a question. I have read Loftus’ “A Summary of My Case Against Christianity” and have found that the majority of his arguments are irrelevant or non-sequitur. For example, it makes no difference to me whether the Bible is historically inaccurate or contradictory since it’s not the basis of the gospel anyway. As another example, it does not follow logically from the fact that particular religions dominate in a certain area that Christianity is false.

Other irrelevancies include all of the arguments from science (makes no difference to me whether the universe is old or young, whether evolution is true, whether any archaeological evidence of Israel exists, etc.) and all of the arguments based on the doings of the so-called church (de-bunking a man-made institution does not debunk Christ).

Is there additional evidence given in the book not found in the summary case? I want to know it will be worth my time before I read it. I'm sorry, but I have examined the arguments rationally and I don't think get to the heart of Christianity.

Anonymous said...

Well sophie,
what would you consider a good argument against christianity?

Anonymous said...

Sophie, why is it the case that "it makes no difference to me whether the Bible is historically inaccurate or contradictory," since if it is then we have reason to think the same things about the gospel itself.

And while you are correct that "it does not follow logically from the fact that particular religions dominate in a certain area that Christianity is false," it does indicate that we have a strong tendency to believe what our cultural heritage leads us to believe.

You ask if there is additional evidence given in the book not found in the summary case. Yes, of course! In the first place, what you read was a mere summary of one part of my book. In that one part of the book I anticipate and answer why these sorts of things are not irrelevant to what you believe. In the second place, that summary only sets the stage for my examination of the Biblical evidence to be found in the second part. The summary I wrote offers reasons why we should be skeptical with regard to the claims of the Bible before examining the evidence, but I also examine the evidence. It's a unique case, a comprehensive case, a complete and whole case, which fits together as one whole argument from a former insider to Christian theism.

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Interesing that John is arranging with a fellow team member to have a review of his book altered.

Is that the Loftus "honesty" at work?

Anonymous said...

As the author of the review Jason can write or edit it anyway he wants to. All I'm asking is that he consider what I say by clarifying and justifying his claims.

Anonymous said...

Jason, upon re-reading your review I see what you meant when you wrote that 90% of Americans wouldn't understand it "because you need some good knowledge of the Bible to grasp all of it." So I see what you meant, that only 10% will understand it all.

Anonymous said...

Maybe I have too much time on my hands this morning, but I have one other thought. Jason claims that "ninety-nine percent of this [my] book is fantastic," and that he "could write pages on how great it is." Yet when I put his review in my word processor I found that there were 366 words in praise of it and 373 words that could be considered helpful criticism.

I do thank you for the helpful honest criticism. I yearn for it. In fact, I cannot wait for a Christian apologist of some note to write a review of it. As I said, the reason I'm an atheist is because I could not answer the arguments and the questions I enumerate in my book. So if I'm wrong anywhere I want to know.

It's just that while you claim to present a balanced review, the word count says otherwise. I guess this just illustrates how most of us humans think, doesn't it? We all tend to focus on the negative, don't we? In that regard I'm probably like you, especially when we have what can be described as "competing" books on the market.

I did the same as you when it came to David Mills book Atheist Universe.

Jason Long said...

John,

Just to be clear, there won't be any deals to edit my review. I will edit what I think needs to be edited. Feel free to comment on Amazon if you wish. I won't be offended.

I read the part about Job for a third time and have determined that I misinterpreted what you wrote, so I will remove that from my review.

I meant that you tackle both methods, not that you steer between.

I'm sure my book does not have 10% new ideas, but my book is irrelevant to whether your book has 10% new ideas. If you're happy with that, I'm happy for you.

What I intended to convey was that only 10% of America would be able to grasp the majority of your book.

And your last question...what I mean to say is that it is comprehensive and not a study on say, archaeology surrounding the Exodus.

If you're this worried about it, I'll try to clear up my review.

Anonymous said...

Jason, my friend, I'm not worried about it much at all. I just had too much time on my hands this morning. ;-) Now I must go.

Cheers.

T said...

John,

I am beginning to see what your passion does to you! Counting things... A little OCD in you is there?

Just teasing! ;)
Toby

Andrew said...
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Andrew said...
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Anonymous said...

OK, John I am going to take you at your word. I'm going to order the book and determine for myself whether yours are valid arguments or whether they are red herrings.

Let me reassert, however, that a person can become a Christian without having read or even hearing of the Bible. This was particularly true of early gentile Christians who had never heard Judaism and its Tanakh, who converted before the New Testament was written.

Further, a person can believe in evolution, a 13 billion year old universe, etc. and still be a Christian.

Finally, let me try to address the person who asked what I would consider to be a good argument against Christianity. I will try to explain this further on my blog at www.sophiesladder.com, but it would have to demonstrate that my own personal experience of salvation and the living being and presence of Christ is false.

Regards,

Anonymous said...

Sophie, your site looks impressive and I wish you well! I think with Dr. Hector Avalos that you've just chosen to read one of the best critiques of Christianity on the market today.

I eagerly await your review of my book. I feel a little like Captain Kirk as he was supposedly sending Khan the plans for the Genesis Project, but secretly sending him the code to dismantle his force field. As he did so Kirk said with a knowing smile, "here you go."

PS I criticize the gospel message itself.

John said...

John,

I liked your personal testimony. There was alot that I could relate to. I think the book was outstanding. I'm going through it again and I really like the sections on evil and suffering. The whole book is good. Call me crazy or misinformed but I like it. It's going to be my bible for awhile.

I've studied apologetics and theology for years and I think you've done your homework.

I'm in agreement with you now.

There is no God

I am an atheist.

Anonymous said...

Cole you've come a long way from when I first met you as a Bible quoting Christian here at DC. I wish you well as you find ways to live life to the fullest without leaning on a delusional faith, and I hope you too help spread the word that it is a delusion.

John Shuck said...

John,

Just received your book in the mail. I look forward to reading it and will provide a review on my blog (to counter the claim that only team members review your work!)

Sorry about the hassle you are receiving from the fundies, but that is to be expected when you shatter idols.

Anonymous said...

The book has been ordered and should be here Thursday.

Anonymous said...

John I see you pastor for a "progressive" church that celebrates diversity.

Super! I look forward to your review more than most since liberals like you have the best arguments against fundamentalism.

Cheers.

Ramon Carroll said...

Hello Mr. Loftus. First of all, I'd like to thank you very much for taking the time out to put your passion on paper. It has really served me a great deal. I am a former devout Christian (abandoned the faith very recently), now agnostic, who has recently decided to take the debunking christianity challenge, which has led me to many websites by former Christians, as well as a couple of Atheist books so far.

Your book, as well as the book "Atheism Explained" by David Ramsay Steele, have both dealt severe blows to my faith in Christianity and its teachings. Its actually kind of scary right now, because my whole world is based around Christianity and its teachings, including my education (Bible college graduate).

Either way, my mindset is that the truth is what matters most, at least in regards to religious discussion, so I'm willing to deal with whatever is true despite how hard it hurts to let it go. So far, I don't feel too confident in the "truths" of the Bible, nor the existence of the Christian God.

Your book is nearly everything I could ask for personally. I needed something that was a comprehensive (yet not exhaustive) treatment of all of the arguments for Christianity from a former "insider's" perspective.

I REALLY enjoyed the section that described the fact that the human who has certain psychological and emotional commitments to a particular idea has the amazing ability to make the irrational sound rational, or to explain away obvious problems (that sentence doesn't sound right, but oh well!) with their view. It really jived well with my own experiences when I go back and take a look at some of my own arguments for Christianity in the past.

About your testimony, I really enjoyed it personally, because it allowed me the opportunity to really get to know you as a person before I examined anything you had to say. Concerning the claims of "boringness", I do have to say that I felt that there were areas in that chapter that were a bit long and drawn out, and maybe even unecessary. Even though I appreciated all of the detail, I can imagine that the average reader would probably ask for a slightly (and I do mean "slightly", because there was alot of value info there) condensed version.

I will say that your book was a little "heady" in certain parts, especially the philosophical arguments sections. I can imagine certain laypeople having some slight difficulties keeping up with you there. For the most part, I was able to stay with you, due to my exposure to Christian apologetics. You DID explain to your audience that they have the freedom to skip over that stuff, but I wish you had reiterated it, because I can see certain people getting kind of stuck (such as a very special someone that I'd like to give this book to) at those parts. Just my own opinion though.

Anyways, one reason that I really liked your testimony is because it seems to jive well with the whole emotional commitments concept. There seems to be many reasons that people have for holding on to Christianity or any religion in particular (love, security, community, fire insurance, etc.). When those particular benefits are taken away, then all of a sudden the person has the opportunity to take a more sober look at their beliefs, because they are not getting what they wanted out of them. I'm suspecting that this idea plays a huge role in your experience, and if so, I can definitely say that I understand, because it was not until I had a long series of continuously bad experiences (some more tragic than others) within Christianity and ministry that I was able to take a serious look at my beliefs. Was I upset at Christianity? Slightly, but it was enough to cause me to seriously question my beliefs from a different perspective (I guess this is what you would call the "outsider's test"). I needed to make sure that the thing which I devoted my entire life to was true, because if it wasn't, I was putting myself through all of this grief in vain. It didn't take too long at all for me to realize what little ground the Christian faith has to stand on. I'm still a little lost right now, and trying to figure out how to share this all with my friends and loved ones, but I know I'll be okay.

Anyways, thanks for such a great book. I'm not all the way through it yet, but I'm very satisfied so far. I have a request, and maybe you or someone else here can help me with it. I’m looking for a book that deals specifically and exhaustively with the Bible itself (inerrancy, errors, inconsistencies, the process of canonicity, etc.). I understand that just about every atheist and agnostic book deals with this, but I was looking for a book that is strictly devoted to this area, because after I finish reading it, I know of a person who is REALLY going to need it. Does Mr. Avalos’ book deal directly with all of these issues, or does it merely deal with irrelevance of the Bible for modern-day society? I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks!

Anthony said...

Traveler, there is one book that I would recommend that deals with many of the problems of the Bible and its revelance to inerrancy. It is written by an evangelical, but the implications of what he says is partly what led me out of Christianity. It's "God's Word in Human Words: An Evangelical Appropriation of Critical Biblical Scholarship" by Kenton Sparks. The first 2/3 of the book really hits hard on the problems of the Bible. I did not find his argument in the last third convincing. This is where he tries to reconcile an evangelical faith with the many problems of the Bible.

T said...

Traveler,

Great post, I was in a very similar spot just a few months back. I'm a Bible College grad as well. I just read Avalos' book "The End of Biblical Studies." It was absolutely fantastic. It gave a very thorough, yet condensed version of how the Bible was compiled and it analyzed many of the problems with it. I personally would say that Dr. Avalos' approach is to show that the Bible is indeed a non-special collection of books that has survived as the revered Word of God only out of sheer ignorance to its origins. Dr. Avalos provides sound and thorough scholarship that sufficiently eliminates any possibility that the Bible might be (or contain within) the inerrant or inspired Word of God. It is not hard to read per se, but is written at a college level. It is more academic/scholarly than most books, and as such sometimes gets a bit wordy (in a professor-ish kind of way). I think it is absolute must have for all Bible College graduates or students. I so wish I would have been exposed to this when I was in Bible College.
That's my 2 cents worth. Best of luck on your quest!

Anonymous said...

Traveler, thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.

As far as your question goes here you can see Avalos's Table of Contents to decide for yourself. I think I recommend a few books toward the end of my chapter on "Prophecy and Biblical Authority," but you should look at Jason Long's Biblical Nonesense.

T said...

Traveler,

I think if you get both "The End of Biblical Studies" by Avalos and "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrdman that you will have what you are looking for.

Ehrdman is a Princeton Theological Seminary educated PhD and Avalos is a Harvard educated PhD. Both of these books reflect their high level of education and provide sound scholarship.