God Loves Cho Seung-Hui
In trying times like these, when terrible crimes against humanity have been committed, like the recent murders of Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old South Korean man of Virginian Tech University in Blacksburg, Virginia, we must be extra careful not to rush to judgment or let anger get the best of us! The world watched in horror on April 16, 2007, as Cho Seung-Hui made history by unleashing the worst school shooting rampage in U.S. history.
Cho Seung-Hui was described as a deeply troubled man, one who never smiled or greeted strangers, and always expressed deep-seated hatred of “rich kids,” and people who led lives of “debauchery.” He took antidepressants, and it is believed once set fire to a dormitory, stalked women, and wrote very disturbing pieces of literature. He was what many would call “a bad guy.”
Where is God when terrible things like this happen? What we must
remember is, God is there, even though it seems at times as though he isn’t. God loves us all, including those of us who have chosen the wrong path. God loves Cho Seung-Hui very much and looks down from heaven with compassion, despite his wreaking sheer havoc on an unsuspecting college campus, taking many innocent lives in the process.
Jesus was right there all the time, looking down with love as this
angry man premeditatedly sawed the serial numbers off the guns he used to blast screaming college kids into tomorrow. Jesus was watching as young people, with their lives still ahead of them, stood petrified with fear in those brief moments before their demise. Jesus was there, waiting in the wings to comfort those mourning families who lost their loved ones at the whim of a tarnished soul. Jesus was there, my friend, Jesus hasn’t forgotten! As the song goes, Jesus knows, Jesus cares!
There’s a lot of anger in the air because of this tragedy. The world is wishing this guy straight to Hell, thinking of how much people like Cho Seung-Hui deserve to suffer, but its times like these when we must try especially hard to think like Jesus. Its times like these when the grace of Jesus Christ our Lord shines out brighter than the sun. The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance! We should not wish evil on this disturbed and erring child of God, no matter how horrible and unsettling his deeds.
We should all aim never to be judgmental or hateful, and we must be careful where we place blame. People are quick to judge Cho Seung-Hui, but before they do, they should consider judging the people he executed first. They were college kids, most of them, and like the majority of young men and women today, probably experimented with premarital sex, smoked pot, and drank alcohol—not exactly followers of Christ! So we shouldn’t judge him too harshly.
Maybe, after this heartless berserker’s rage, when the traumatized halls of Virginia Tech were finally calmed, and 33 people (including the gunman himself) were dead, and 21 more seriously injured, just before Mr. Seung-Hui took a bullet from his own gun to the head, he repented. Yes, maybe, just before the blood-caked carpets of Virginia Tech were combed over by police, when only faint pleas for help could be heard from terrorized victims, curled up and quivering in the fetal position in the corners of classrooms and under desks, this furious killer genuinely repented. Perhaps just before that last bullet ravaged his brain, doing away with his thought processes, he muddled a prayer to God, asking for forgiveness of his sins and relief from the pain of life under which he snapped.
For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life! God loves Cho Seung-Hui, just like he loves you and me. He wants us to spend eternity in heaven together.
Maybe, even as I write this article, those slain men and women that
meet God at the pearly gates are in for a surprise! Singing hymns,
encircling the throne of God, listening to the lovely melody of harps, those murdered children of the almighty will be met by the very man who sent them there, and with forgiveness and beaming smiles of compassion and unfathomable joy, they will make that circle one soul larger! Cho Seung-Hui may not have been smiling much on earth, but he certainly will be in heaven as he, and all the redeemed, clasp hands and dance before the Lord on the streets of gold in that city foursquare!
(JH)
(JH)
75 comments:
Joe, or maybe Hitler, or Al Capone?
In case Christians want to claim with Dante that those who commit suicide cannot be in heaven, but are in the lowest depths of hell, read Lewis B. Smedes book, Mere Morality, where he looks at the issue in some depth and concludes if they do so out of despair such a sin can still be forgiveable if they embrace the Christian faith.
What strikes me as particularly ignorant, is that Christians claim the people who were killed by Seung-Hui deserved to die. Yep. They all deserved to die because of their sins.
Our sins are terrible things, are they not?
Where are the Christians who will stand up and be counted here and loudly proclaim that these kids deserved to die. That's what Christians say. And since God gives life and takes it away, he merely used Seung-Hui to do it, just like he used the Babylonians and the Romans to destroy Jerusalem in the past, and just like he used the Romans to kill Jesus.
Yep...and if Seung-Hui was a messenger of God for judgment on a sinful college or nation, we can't oppose what he did and not be opposing God in doing so.
(JH)
"Yep...and if Seung-Hui was a messenger of God for judgment on a sinful college or nation, we can't oppose what he did and not be opposing God in doing so."
Which is why I could never believe in a personal god, JH. Personalities (even divine ones) are way too squirrelly. And instead of reflecting a cosmic/spiritual reality, they reflect our anthropocentric view of the Universe and our unstated belief that we are still the center of it.
Furthermore, saying that a god had anything to do with Seung-Hui's psychotic rampage is just another way evading our collective resposibility for the actions of other human beings. And if Christians really do argue that the victims of this random violence deserved their fate, then they believe in a god who is no better than Pol Pot or Adolph Hitler. That's no god I or any rational person could ever believe in. Besides, these Christians would be passing judgement of on the VT victims which, according to Jesus, is not their judgement to make in the first place.
GE
I totally agree with your post. In light of this tragedy, I hope he received some peace with God. It seems like through his whole life he was never at peace.
Probably he was abused at a young age. Probably he was taunted. Whatever it is, it is sad what happened. I think as Christians, should start reaching out to people who are troubled.
All of us has the presence of God within us, but we just dont show it.
The tragedy and the beauty of life is our free will.
Hey (JH), Let's be honest here...
This Seung-Hui was not a messenger of God. It is time we stand by our Christian values/faith and let the world know that our God is a loving God and would not cause something like this. EVER!
I see Seung-Hui caught up with Satan and following his deceitful lies. I agree and believe that God does love Seung-Hui, like he loves everyone on earth... but that doesn't mean that Seung-Hei was walking with God.
If he did repent after the violent act he caused , I don't think it would have been very honest. Someone who walks with God and is strong in faith would not do such a thing. He was obviously confused and had a horrible childhood and was too far from God. That's the problem - SATAN has taken over teens lives, parents need to start reinstilling values and morals in their kids lives so they know right from wrong. We need more mentors out there reaching out to teens, or whoever, to give help. Sometimes people don't think to turn to God, we need to remind the world that he is there and loves all.
I pray for ALL the victims and families that were involved in this nightmare and hope they all seek forgivness in their hearts.
I do truly believe that in these instinces, all the victims were taken to God and will be taken care of. As for Seung-Hui, I hope he feels the pain for this and because of that, finds God.
Murder is not God. It's Satan.
Where are all the TRUE believers now a days? True Christians that don't pass judgment on anyone..
Only seek help for all that need it.
There are things right and wrong - sometimes it takes time to find the truth and we should be there for everyone in need.
Michelle L.
I haven't seen any official church statement on this.
Atheists sticking a sarcastic christian frame around it isn't helping anyone.
Still, I wonder what the Westfield Baptist Church will have to say about it.
Michelle L., please get a dictionary and look up the word, "PARODY." Satire seems as though its becoming a lost art these days.
The piece makes us think of a number of things...
First, the fact that your prayers are a little late! God could've stopped this tragedy but didn't! Second, it helps us consider how the false and unrealistic common platitudes of Christians are worthless and even insulting. Third, it makes us face the fact that defective individuals like this sicko are true pieces of human garbage, complete failures. They became monsters because they are products of a godless universe. "Love," and "salvation," and "forgiveness of God," mean nothing in the face of such people and the atrocities they cause. And there is more in here too. Can you dig it out?
In regards to what religious leaders did or didn't say about this incident, I was not quoting anyone in particular, though we all know some will see this as another instance of "divine justice."
Some of you would do well to read the piece a bit more carefully.
(JH)
After listening to our Preacher-in-Chief give his pap-filled sermon about the "loving" god at the convocation yesterday, I wonder why more true believers have not jumped to just the kind of conclusion you've satirically written here.
I know that philosophers of religion have been debating the good-evil dichotomy for millennia. But, still, how can theists believe that their god is benevolent when he/she/it allows random evil?
I've written about this question on my own blog, and would love an educated comment from someone, like you, who's "been there." Perhaps you'll have some insight, and can explain how Christians think.
God may love Cho, but that does not by any means place him in heaven. Cho would have had to accept Jesus as his personal savior for this to happen. This is the crux of what Christians believe. To miss this basic element, whether in parody or in seriousness, leads me to believe the writer of this blog lacks credibility to attack the Christian religion.
Sincerely-
A first and last time reader
That genetically screwed up piece of dog shit is going to hell where he belongs. The asss was just a retarded bastard and I sure am glad he is no longer on the planet.
Let that sick freak burn forever where he belongs!
Many comments. Let's start with the easy ones. The WestBORO Family Cult will be attempting to demonstrate at the funerals. What madness is their excuse for doing this I do not know -- or care.
Reader, I have occasional sympathy and respect for some forms of Christianity, but your comments sicken me. Thankfully, few Christians that I know of would argue that whether Cho 'accepted Jesus as his personal Savior' was more important to his 'eternal destination' than what he did or his possible repentance. If I could accept an afterlife, I could argue he had damned himself by the horror and pain he created. I could argue that true justice would be served by the Zoroastrian idea of a severe punishment, but one which would end with the coming of the Son of God and the new Kingdom -- yes, those ideas of Christianity are not original but come from Persia. I can accept the Catholic doctrine that, no matter how bad a sinner is, if he truly repents -- that is realizes what he has done, how evil it was, and regrets from that self-knowledge, not from fear of hell, he can be saced.
But to argue that neither his deed nor his repentance matters as much as his religious belief, that is hideous. I hope your final line is true.
More comments later.
He's in God's hands now.
Man's intentions were evil. God's intentions were good.
Calvin said...
"He's in God's hands now. Man's intentions were evil. God's intentions were good."
My reply...
Ah yes, I see; since God's intentions are "good," he's going to employ his "goodness" by torturing this man's soul forever!
(JH)
Why wasn't I one of those people who got shot
If he is in hell then he belongs there. If he is in heaven then he doesn't belong there. If he is in hell then he doesn't want to have anything to do with God and he never will. He will continue to sin and carry out his evil deeds in hell.
I am very interested in knowing something of the killer's family background. I think that at least some of the responsibility / explanations for this tragedy must have to do with this persons upbringing. Has anyone heard /read anything about his parents?
Calvin said...
"If he is in hell then he belongs there. If he is in heaven then he doesn't belong there. If he is in hell then he doesn't want to have anything to do with God and he never will. He will continue to sin and carry out his evil deeds in hell."
My reply...
Uh, is there anything to actually do in hell? What kind of "evil deeds" is one capable of doing in hell? He doesn't have guns, so he can't shoot people, and if he just punches or kicks someone, or splashes some fire and brimstone from the lake of fire on someone, my guess is they won't actually feel it because they're supposedly engulfed in fire anyway!?
I know Hell is called "the second death," but if you think about it, its not really a "death" at all if the condemned soul is still conscious and able to mill around down there, if only in a pit of fire.
Nope, sorry. I detest such a belief, as Ingersoll put it, "as the most infamous of lies."
(JH)
You just don't like the fact that God is a just God. Your misconceptions are false beliefs and lies as you continue to portray a Holy God as evil.
what are you saying i thought there hell and heaven and god decide where you go so dont say he is heaven smiling he probably in hell where he belong you do something bad you go to hell that is your punishment why dont you go tell those parents what you think you a fool that what you are if it was your child you wouldnt be saying all this crap!!!!!!!!
you are all on crack.
especially the person who wrote the post.
Hi Joe,
Maybe you should provide a disclaimer at the beginning of your post for those that don't understand the context.
WARNING: PARODY
WARNING: SARCASM
WARNING: LITERARY DEVICE
WARNING: SATIRE
Calvin said...
"You just don't like the fact that God is a just God. Your misconceptions are false beliefs and lies as you continue to portray a Holy God as evil."
My reply...
Your thinking is warped, bordering on insane.
It is impossible for a mortal, even one of the likes of Hui, to deserve truly eternal punishment. You don't torture someone who does not obey you. That's the mark of a tyrant, and your god is a tyrant. If you choose to remain blind to that fact, it's on you.
And no, Mr. Anonymous. I'm not on crack. It is the religious masses who are "on" religion, which is what makes them blind to the fact that their deity is to blame for a massacre like this one.
And sadly, Mr. Randolph, if I put an official disclaimer before the article, it would ruin the effect of it. Plus, it would gratify dumbed-down minds that are willfully refusing to accept the gravity of this situation.
Yes, satire has REALLY fallen out in popularity these days!
(JH)
Calvin sez:
"If he is in hell then he belongs there. If he is in heaven then he doesn't belong there. If he is in hell then he doesn't want to have anything to do with God and he never will. He will continue to sin and carry out his evil deeds in hell."
Calvin, what about the 32 victims of the killer? They were young men and women - suppose they were not Christians. Are they in Hell right now? Were their lives cut short by a roll of the Divine Dice before they had an opportunity to recieve Jesus Christ?
So.. what then - tough luck, they had their chance? Is it eternal Torture for the victims?
How in any way, shape or form does this make God 'just'?
hah.. I like the random comment saying the Cho should go to hell forever, but yeah, I think he deserved just what he got... death.
The real sad truth is this: The victims of this killer who weren't Christians are seen as going to hell for their sins, and that according to Christianity is just. Terrible to think about, but true.
hah... I was beat to the punch, so to speak.
I love how much activity goes on in this blog.
Once again the people in hell don't want to have anything to do with God. They continue in their sin and remain under God's judgement. His judgements are just and true.
Your thinking is warped bordering on the insane - As we can see from this comment the delusion grows stronger. And the hatred of a Holy God intensifies. This is exactly what people in hell are saying to God right now.
Calvin said...
"Once again the people in hell don't want to have anything to do with God. They continue in their sin and remain under God's judgement. His judgements are just and true.
Your thinking is warped bordering on the insane - As we can see from this comment the delusion grows stronger. And the hatred of a Holy God intensifies. This is exactly what people in hell are saying to God right now."
My reply...
You can white-wash your angry sky spirit all you want, but you can't for a moment expect me to believe that those condemned souls who are confined to hell for eternity don't want out, don't want another chance to turn their lives around and serve God (read Luke 16:19-31).
And btw, I don't hate what I don't believe in.
Such a big religion...such a small mind!
(JH)
Even in Hades the rich man is arrogant, thinking he can have Lazarus sent to do his bidding.
Calvin said...
"Even in Hades the rich man is arrogant, thinking he can have Lazarus sent to do his bidding."
My reply...
You're an idiot. The rich man is not supposing he is entitled to have Lazarus bring him a drop of water, but he was begging for it. There is a difference. One is done out of arrogance, the other of desperation brought on by the merciless torment your deity was putting him through. Please familiarize yourself with this distinction before making a fool of yourself further.
I'm almost speechless...!
(JH)
Well, It's clearly arrogance.
Regardless, when you sin against a being that is infinite in value and worth there's infinite concequences.
The heinousness of any crime must be gauged according to the worth or dignity of the person it is commited against. Sin against an infinite God is a sin worthy of infinite punishment. Only eternal punishment will suffice for sins against an eternal God. Awful punishment fits the nature of an awe inspiring God. Hell satisfies God's justice and glorifies it by showing how great and fearful a standard it is.
Is the person who posted this blog serious?! Sounds like you are only encouraging the 'sick' minded individuals that exist in society, by putting forth your statement that Jesus loves Cho Seung Hui and those who committ these senseless acts of voilence. NOT a good statement!
Furthermore, you may wish to reconsider posting such harsh words, which you obviously have not put much empathy into:
"as this man... sawed the serial numbers off the guns he used to blast screaming college kids into tomorrow."
I applauded this blogger for the compassionate view s/he offered. I agree that even with all of our sins, God loves us, even Cho. May God have mercy on him for his sins. May Cho find peace. Poor soul has been tortured in his life.
I agree we should not rush judgment. It is a sad situation for everyone involved.
Calvin said: The heinousness of any crime must be gauged according to the worth or dignity of the person it is commited against. Sin against an infinite God is a sin worthy of infinite punishment. Only eternal punishment will suffice for sins against an eternal God. Awful punishment fits the nature of an awe inspiring God. Hell satisfies God's justice and glorifies it by showing how great and fearful a standard it is.
I didn't know the Westboro Baptists came to your blog. Kudos!
Calvin said...
"The heinousness of any crime must be gauged according to the worth or dignity of the person it is commited against. Sin against an infinite God is a sin worthy of infinite punishment. Only eternal punishment will suffice for sins against an eternal God. Awful punishment fits the nature of an awe inspiring God. Hell satisfies God's justice and glorifies it by showing how great and fearful a standard it is."
My reply...
Do you think you're telling us something we haven't heard before? Do you think you are educated because you can quote Thomas Aquinas?
I'm sure such pious, nonsensical words appeal to you, but they lack any semblance of humanity, of what we thinking humans regard as compassion, something your mind-numbing belief system has apparently robbed you of.
Unleashing eternal torture on a being of lesser stature and power is despotism and terrorism. It cannot logically be called "justice" by any stretch of the imagination.
And upon further examination, this little contention actually argues for my position; since a so-called infinite deity is being sinned against, any offenses against him must be rendered null because logically speaking, it is impossible to wrong a being of omni status (you can only offend a being of limitations, one that for whatever reason, was unable to keep wrongs from having been committed against him in the first place). An omnipotent being with complete control over the universe cannot thinkably be "offended" as lesser beings can be. To say that such a being can be "annoyed," or "displeased," or "angered," or "sinned against," is incoherent at best. Those terms apply only to impotent creatures in limited relationships.
Hell is nothing more than a terroristic threat, my friend, and you are guilty of repeating it. You serve a deity who has decreed an eternity of nightmarish misery for countless beings that he himself created. He is a father who believes in torturing his own children. That is unthinkable!
It sounds virtually impossible to believe that anyone could open their mouths in serious affirmation of such a monstrous, horrible doctrine.
(JH)
Cho Seoung Hi was sufferring from social anxiety(did not know how to talk or approach a girl), inferiority complex, depressiCho Seung-Hui on, infatuation with Emily Hilscher, sexual frustration, rejection and betrayal by roomates which sounded like a witchhunt trying to get him into trouble and the professors he thought he could trust, deep isolation and both mixed and conflicting religious views around him about how to be morally correct having a conservative christian faith.(MTV Cribs, and all the pop culture garbage that you see on TV.) It was stated that he's sister graduated from Princeton in 2004 which was also a tough act to follow. Maybe, A high expectations to succeed from his parents.
Here's what i have to say as a white man hearing what the media keeps on vilifying this poor asian guy: We have instigated a whole lot of capitalism, consumerism, greed and materialism to the rest of the world that everyone just blindly accepts what we sell them which in turn gets them into that cycle of poverty. That is the "hamster running inside the wheel" effect. The media has that power to sway and change your point of view. They are very sophisticated at trying to brainwashed the rest of us to sell something or to make us believe a certain things. This poor asian guy arrived here in second grade which made me asked??? who put all that garbage into his head?? these are the same people who are critical of the shooter's actions, us this freakin' society. Some of us need to examine the United States history as far back as 1492 to understand what had transpired on this weeks carnage at VTech.
We need to look at how we treat each other or others who are different than us, race relations in this country hasn't really improve that much, people are short of saying something racist against the asian people.
There are lots of negativities,negative comments floating around, pretentiousness, greed, materialism and just trying to impress each other with status or material things that is just so pervasive in this country.
This is pure decadence! by all of us who lives and participate in this society.
Jesus bring love and save the world coz of our sin not war nor even bring unproper death. Just feel sorry to Cho Seung-Hui’s mind.
Joe, you missed two very important points.
First, while Cho Seung-Hui may be able to go to heaven because he had the chance to repent before pulling the trigger on himself, the 33 he killed are going straight to hell. We're all sinners and not one of them had a chance to repent before being murdered. Die in sin, go to hell. The Good Book says so.
The second point you missed is that this is all part of God's plan. There was a reason that this happened which we mortals may never understand. The loss of their children is a test of the faith of their parents, siblings, family and friends. It will make them stronger.
Otherwise, a truly beautiful and insightful (and perhaps "inciteful") piece.
Calvin sez:
"The heinousness of any crime must be gauged according to the worth or dignity of the person it is commited against. Sin against an infinite God is a sin worthy of infinite punishment. Only eternal punishment will suffice for sins against an eternal God. Awful punishment fits the nature of an awe inspiring God. Hell satisfies God's justice and glorifies it by showing how great and fearful a standard it is."
Who let Jonathan Edwards in here? Or is this just a troll who enjoys stirring a hornet's nest?
Whoever he is, he sure makes the Gospel attractive. Where do I sign up?
You know... your life begins as you make a distinction about yourself and others, from that moment, the world becomes the stage in which you're the main character. Yet, All humans live in the illusion that they're the main character. But the world, cruel as it is, denies you of that role. It's sad and ironic that they have to live with this burden and waste their entire lives just that they believe they are special.(In some cases others will fall in love with a certain character of a story and they believe that it is them in that story.) It's really pathetic.
But we can't change one thing, "These things and circumstances will always happen, because were only human. Cho Seung-Hui must think that he believes he's special, that he has the feeling of sick importance and had committed these sins so he can prove that he's powerful to everyone. It's VERY PATHETIC.
But whether god approves of his actions, we all can't help but to think that we're all special. That's the free will of humans...
i am embarrased at my self for wasting 5 minutes reading this rubbish, u should be ashamed talking about the victims like that.
Actually Joe that was Jonathan Edwards. Once again I don't know where the guy is. But God is Just. And either way God will be Glorified. Notice the madness of the people with the name calling just because God is Holy. My goodness.
Joe, are you okay? Witnessing current events can have a devastating impact, not only for those directly involved but also for those who are witness to such events. Take care, okay?
Just a side note - oftentimes, conversing about hell makes it sound like a far off foreign land, but in fact, if we were not so willing to help construct its confines, it would not exist.
It is enough to acknowledge and grieve the truth of evil without adding to its ranks with further scrutiny or judgemental condemnation.
As for me, and I encourage others as well, when you hear of such things taking place, look around you - there are many who need a word of kindness or an act of friendship extended to them. Let these acts motivate us towards loving more and fearing less.
Anon 1035
Would you like some water Joe?
Holman satires a weak version of Christianity that is inconsistent with the Bible to try and make Christians look silly.
I, on the other hand, didn't have to do that/ I take the *actual* views of atheists and make atheianity look silly:
See here:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/04/times-like-this.html
and here:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/04/cho-seung-hui-should-not-be-punished.html
I'm worried about the extent to which this massacre is being used to make our pet points, without taking to heart what happened here.
There is a pattern. A kid, or group of kids, are picked on and alienated from their peers. I'm not talking about an occasional jab, but a systematic, coordinated rejection of a child as a non-person. The kid internalizes the message. It builds up until they can't take it any more, and so they explode -- with lethal consequences.
Why is it so hard to learn this lesson? This sort of systematic alienation is just too much for the human psyche. We're essentially social creatures, and can't survive this sort of global rejection. Can't schools, or at least parents, raise their kids well enough so that it would never occur to them to engage in this sort of bullshit?
It was the parents fault. Oh Ok. It's all becoming clear to me now. Maybe we should lock them up and put them in prison.
I don't know as there is any way to know who IS or IS NOT in heaven. I know where I stand personally. I am not going to judge anyone else.
Cho's parents are just as grief-stricken as anyone else. They lost a son. There were THIRTY THREE deaths on that campus on Monday. Each one is a loss to humanity.
Having worked with the criminally insane I can tell you that they are needy, hurting individuals just like you and me -- except that we perhaps remember where "the line" of sanity is and don't cross it.
I am a believer of Jesus the Christ.
Calvin said...
"Actually Joe that was Jonathan Edwards. Once again I don't know where the guy is. But God is Just. And either way God will be Glorified. Notice the madness of the people with the name calling just because God is Holy. My goodness."
My reply...
That goes back to Thomas Aquinas (read his work Summa Theologica for more on this).
The rest of your comment is just nonsensical preaching rhetoric. I needn't waste time responding to it.
To those anonymous folks who are worried about me and offered me water, thanks! Some cyber-water should do me good! :-)
(JH)
Paul Manata said...
"Holman satires a weak version of Christianity that is inconsistent with the Bible to try and make Christians look silly.
I, on the other hand, didn't have to do that/ I take the *actual* views of atheists and make atheianity look silly:"
My reply...
Oh yes, Manata! Your "strong" version of Xtianity is much better than my weaker one. I forgot that people like you got things all worked out. You put everyone else to shame, including us bone-headed atheists!
Damnit, I'm sorry I even crossed you! All this time I made an ass of myself knocking Christianity when all I had to do was listen to you!
If only...!
(JH)
Poor Joe Holman. He finds it necessary to resort to emotional outbursts to respond to his interlocutors. Sarcasm, unfounded shots, unargued assertions, and mockery. Have I missed anything Joe, or have I got you about all summed up?
Cho Seung-Hui is NOT in heaven ok! he was so filled with insane bloodlusting evil amoral hatred and corruption that its amazing his warped dark soul didnt deform his body into that of a Demon.
He is in hell! and is now mutating into a hellish Wraith (just like the ones from the Epic novel/films "Lord of the Rings") and his screechs will echo throughout the boiling blood filled caverns of the 6th layer of hell where he resides now.
STOP saying he's in heaven.....he hated people, he hated rich people and deliberately went out of his way to murder people reguardless of whether or not they were rich/poor, religious or unreligious, gay or straight or whatever....He went on a lunatic kill frenzy like many other dickheads who try and act tough by holding a knife or gun up at a camera and posing in a sinister way.
His actions sealed his stay in hell forever, his dark soul will still be writhing in hell until the end of time completely, but then again, maybe even then he and many other evil beings will continue to suffer.
BURN IN HELL you foul murderer! We will soon forget you, but Satan sure wont.
You ACTUALLY think that after all that this evil man did, his demented murderous writings (which is his imagination and soul expressed on paper) and intentions to kill others is now in heaven? if thats true, then what DO you have to do to go to hell? Even if he says he loves god and jesus, butchering people and animals only is a sure way to end up in hell where you'd suffer eternal agony and transform into a demon and then delight in murdering more souls that appear and just lose your mind/soul with eternal agony until your concious and subconsious thoughts ebbs away to nothing but pain.
If he's in heaven, then this means Saddam, Alzaqawi (the evil man who beheads people slowly) Hitler and many other cruel megalomaniacs are in heaven too.
I doubt it.....He willingly chose to kill people, he brought guns, wrote heate filled letters and fantasized about murder and even probably 'what will hell be like? will I get to kill things there and overthrow satan and seat myself on his throne?'....Welll my ole cocker! now you can fullfill your fantasy.....who knows, maybe Satan HAS allready been overthrown by others in hell and you can opt for rullership....doesnt bother me.....I dont like murderers like you.....Enjoy your stay in hell you cruel demented freak!
Leave the physical realms for those who want to enjoy life and existance!
The poster of the last two anonymous posts needs to get a dictionary and look up the word, PARODY. That's what this article is.
This blog is called "Debunking Christianity." It is not a place for preaching.
Obviously, as an atheist, I don't believe anyone is headed to hell. Not even a monster like Cho could be worthy of such a punishment, but it is very revealing to hear you, and people like you, froth at the mouth with righteous anger as you carry on about the suffering this guy will do. Says a lot about you!
(JH)
Holman, the last two anonymosu posters were atheists. Get a clue.
JH,
First time here. Good site.
I didn't read every single comment on this, but from the ones I did, man, I'm astounded at the ability of people to end up on a blog like "Debunking Christianity", read your post, and then entirely miss the point that it was a parody. However, religion does breed stupidity--through a combination of appealing to people's basest fears through superstition, and the curtailing of any sort of free-thinking--so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.
Keep up the good work, friend.
Great essay. I'm sure you got some death threats from loving and caring christians, which is kind of funny because they're supposed to let god take care of punishments.
The aftermath of this massacre reminds me of the aftermath of 9/11 ... the same horrendous and glaring stupidity of the god believers who pray for peace and assistance. HELLO, isn't it a little late ? Don't they think that the victims prayed ? What, was god too busy helping Beyonce lay down her new future-Grammy-winning track, which she will surely credit Him for ?? Or was god too busy helping Bush and his cronies ? Whatever, everyone should have no figured out that god does not listen, so don't bother praying. But they don't. F*cking idiots.
Where was God when this all happened? I would say where was the compassionate hand of one single person to help this kid come to grips with reality (including Atheists or Christians)? Blaming God in a tragedy like this just seems like such a cheap way to treat human tragedy. My 2 cents and you can bank on them.
Angelic Possession
Not A Massacre
---
It Was A Spiritual Warning
The gunning down of 32 teachers and students at Virginia Tech was a spiritual warning for America. It was instigated by an entity that possessed the body of Cho Seung-Hu. The act of bloodshed was filled with symbolic information for subconscious impact. Its purpose was to shock Americans into turning away from the politics of warmongering, pain and suffering, and to turn, instead, to a path of unconditional love.
"The purpose of evil is to inspire all that is good!"
You should note that the timing of the Virginia killings coincided with the U.S. Supreme Court's decision that same day to ban partial birth abortions, a ruling that many believe will be a first step toward reversing the controversial Roe vs. Wade ruling that makes abortions in the United States legal.
This ruling, by a court stacked by the Christian-oriented Bush Administration with ultra conservative judges, is "an assault against women in terms of psycho-sexual freedoms, choice and personal power."
Be warned that the stage is being set for a new wave of racial and sexual discrimination in America that is already beginning to be seen in the daily news. The Don Imus case is the most recent example.
The old battle of the sexes, pitting man against women, is always visible just before great world wars. "We are on the brink of social discord." These things foretell of World War III, which is a growing threat as world powers square off over issues in Iran.
The suicidal acts by 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hu, were sparked by the rejection of one, if not more than one woman. Police in Blacksburg, where the shooting occurred, said they investigated two separate stalking complaints against Cho by university women during his time at the school.
It was said that the first shooting incident involved the murder of a woman in one of the dormitories following an argument.
Among the many statements in his so-called manifesto, Cho said: "You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."
Artwork found in Cho's personal effects included delicate drawings of praying hands over a rose and a male angelic figure kissing a tearful female angel in the clouds. The female's face is turned away as she receives the kiss on her cheek. Both drawings symbolize a Christian influence, even though Cho denounced Christianity in his final video messages received at NBC headquarters on Wednesday.
Strangely, just as in the murders committed by Chicago's Christian serial killer John Wayne Gacy, this young man left 33 victims, one marking each year in the life of Jesus Christ. You should note that the news counts 32 victims, but Cho also took his own life, thus claiming the 33rd victim. That he identified himself as a sacrificial victim was significant. As a possessed young man, his life, indeed, was sacrificed by the entity as a means of delivering this powerful message.
Monday's tragic event at Virginia Tech has even more twists within its symbolic spiritual message.
At this time of year young men are experiencing a natural biological calling to sexual union because it is a time of the year when testosterone levels are raging through their bodies. This has often been referred to as the rites of spring, and are still celebrated in many countries with such events as a dance around a maypole and other pagan gatherings. The maypole, of course, represents the erect male penis.
Women of the world are called to be aware of the subtle power they possess over men, and to be sensitive to the vulnerability of the males at this time of the year.
"Women need to understand this power." Truth be told it is the power of the Kundalini, or that coiled force believed by some to be curled up in the back part of the root chakra at the base of the spine.
The symbol of the Kundalini is found in the Genesis story that tells of the serpent that tempts Eve in the Garden of Eden. It also can be found in images of the human DNA coil, as well as the medical symbol of the caduceus, or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes.
Cho slammed us all with a powerful message that should make us take a long look at the spiritual and political direction this nation is moving. The growing threat of expanding our military conflicts in the Middle East with an attack on Iran is one of the most deadly and spiritually troublesome things we could do.
Truth be said the choice for all of us, especially in choosing our next president, will be that of picking a leader that will be soft on war, or choosing another Christian warmonger like George W. Bush.
It will be a choice between hate and pain and suffering, or love.
A wrong choice will mean a global war. It will mean a return of the draft, and hundreds of thousands of young men and women of the same age group that perished in the Virginia shootings could be slaughtered on the battlefield. This is the probable penalty of choosing wrong.
There is one final symbolic mark to this affair that cannot be overlooked. There is a U. S. Senator representing the State of Virginia who offered public words of comfort on Monday after hearing of the shootings. His name is the same as Presidential candidate John Edwards, except he has a middle initial S in his name.
The appearance by Senator Edwards was a subconscious message to everyone that the presidential candidate by that name is the right choice if America wants a president that will be "soft on war" and lead the nation on a pathway of love.
"Edwards is our next to be in the office and he will stand for love when he is introduced to an Iranian wife bonding our two countries,"
"This is a message from God. It is a divine message of love verses ego and war. It is our choice in the next election."
"The whole thing is obvious enough that everyone can feel it."
I just read Joe E. Holman's rant, though not all of it as it was longwinded, about Jesus loving Seung-Hui Cho and looking down on him with love in his heart while he was shooting students.
This rant is stupid as it attempts to portray Jesus and Christianity in a manner which is quite different from the actual viewpoints and doctrines of Jesus and Christianity. However, I will grant that there are many supposed "Christians" who would espouse such drivel.
As to "suicides" going to Hell, it is not unlikely that Seung-Hui Cho would have personally believed in such a viewpoint and accepted it as the consequence of his actions. He perceived himself as a martyr for a cause, and I believe he was willing to pay this price for his cause. He was also insane and incapable of rational thought.
From the true Christian perspective Seung-Hui Cho is going to Hell and so are most of his victims. If one of his victims was a true Christian, then they will be resurrected to live forever in glory in Heaven and death has no power over them. Everyone is going to die, and Christianity does not change this truth, nor does it attempt to.
gc - gc123517@hotmail.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA
Well, I think Michelle gets the gold star on this one. Cho is facing the wrath and fierceness of God. Unrepentant murderers do not enter into heaven. The Bible is very clear on this matter.
To suggest otherwise is simply ignorance of God's Word and promises.
"However, religion does breed stupidity--through a combination of appealing to people's basest fears through superstition, and the curtailing of any sort of free-thinking--so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised."
What???????
Romans 1:
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22ALTHOUGH THEY CLAIMED TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals.
Thats all I will say.
You last few hatemonger Christian commentors should know that one of the intentions of this article of mine was to bring out the hatred and villainous statements of you Christians who are so adamant that a person could deserve to suffer forever.
Like many Christians, you may be decent, hard working, and nice people, but your belief in eternal punishment is more evil than Cho could ever be.
You are worshipping a god who not only watched while this massacre happened, but will watch tormented souls writhe in the agonies of hell for eternity. he has no problem with it. He created himself.
That is a sick belief, way more psychotic than Cho Seung-Hui. All the psychotics in all the asylums in the whole world couldn't come up with something as cruel.
I wouldn't criticize Cho Seung-Hui if I were you, or if you do, start by criticizing your god!
(JH)
Joe E. Holman,
I hate to break it to you but God himself designed and constructed hell for Lucifer and his rebel angels. It will also be the final abode of death, hades and unrepentant human beings. In Revelation 20:15 it clearly states that anyone whose name is not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. In Matthew 25:46, in the story of the Sheep and Goats, Jesus says - "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life".
I could provide many more scriptures but I think you know, but may refuse to believe, that I am correct.
Joe, I think you have a problem understanding the sovereignty of God.
I'm sorry but I think a sick belief is believing that you are the center of the universe and that there are no consequences for your decisions.
I don't think a sick belief is a God, giving us a chance to LIVE eternal life, ETERNAL LIFE, for us who mainly don't deserve it. I find no reason for those who deny the creator of the universe and blaspheme him to go to hell. But I don't take pleasure in Cho doing his act, or going to hell, because I would truly have wished for him to be saved. However I do think that people should face the consequences of their decisions.
Wow! Interesting reading. Fascinating to hear from people who think only "God" can give our lives meaning, purpose, conscience, etc. I married and moved to THE BIBLE BELT - what a revelation (excuse the pun). Yikes! Joe - I hope you have seen or read the George Carlin routine on God. Even some of my open-minded, self-aware, more worldly-wise Christian friends have laughed their butts off at it.
God's love is grace based. It is not dependent on human actions because if it were, God would have no reason to love anyone. Those who love God and go to heaven do so because God is merciful, not because they deserve to go to heaven.
The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. (Rev 22:21)
Hi Everyone,
I do not say what Cho did was right at all. I totally regret that such a thing happened. bUt, he was mentally ill. He did not do it on purpose. His meantal situation was kept him away from reality. I am sure that merciful God will forgive him.
Hi, I'm in Japan and Buddhist
as with most of Japanese. So I could not empathize Cho's rampage and identity but I want to pray for victims and him. May his mind be peace in heaven now.
One is done out of arrogance, the other of desperation brought on by the merciless torment your deity was putting him through. Please familiarize yourself with this distinction before making a fool of yourself further.
Maybe he should have obeyed the LORD his God.
God decides who receives eternal pleasure in Heaven or eternal torment in Hell.
Like many Christians, you may be decent, hard working, and nice people, but your belief in eternal punishment is more evil than Cho could ever be.
There is nothing wrong with a belief in eternal punishment, because eternal punishment exists.
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