tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post8781969769908830108..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Why Did You Leave the Fold?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger220125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45580043935339975572010-04-14T12:45:50.090-04:002010-04-14T12:45:50.090-04:00I left because my confirmation bias wasn't wor...I left because my confirmation bias wasn't working right. I kept not seeing God answer my prayers the way I'd been taught. It was only after leaving, really, that I was able to clearly <i>think</i> about the issues. At that point, it seemed obvious I'd made the right choice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15281124557281395046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-15821981188860431122010-04-13T20:30:47.875-04:002010-04-13T20:30:47.875-04:00"And who did the cursing? Who made it so we h..."And who did the cursing? Who made it so we have to be cursed?"<br /><br />This was a logic response to a bad choice.<br /><br />The problem is that until you address the cosmic principle that we should ALWAYS obey God as His creatures - you will never understand the logical judgement.<br /><br />If you are too stuck on God as a fellow being and you "miss" that He is Infinite and you are finite<br />and that you mathematically approach zero..you will not identify logical humlity nor the logic of "begging" for grace/mercy<br />because you are actually a danger to yourself.<br /><br />Everything in this temporary creation teaches the believer that choices are a danger to us if we don't obey God with perfection.<br /><br />We had to learn about good and evil or there would never be a true heaven with true free will.<br /><br />Knowledge and motive are required for logical obedience and removing<br />the potential for disobedience (which will get you eternally separated).<br /><br />God was not willing to lose any of His Children in heaven to a bad choice...He loves us and will protect us for all of eternity as He lives inside of us (born-again<br />Christians/Jesus followers).<br /><br />Until you deal with the role of absolute choice and the role of knowledge and God's Self-Sacrificing Love for His children<br />you will not even begin to connect the dots that demonstrate that there is no such thing as true fairness (or equal opportunity).<br /><br />There is only grace (forgiveness<br />for our absolute choices).Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-25755660954657042632010-03-27T07:50:43.317-04:002010-03-27T07:50:43.317-04:00Interestingly enough, I left because I decided to ...Interestingly enough, I left because I decided to read books by atheists as part of my "plan" to debunk atheism. I had already done this with Mormons, JWs, etc. and thought atheism would be no diferent.<br /><br />Then I started reading atheist books (mostly by Michael Shermer but the nail in the coffin was Dan Barker's Losing Faith in Faith) and realized the atheists have better arguments. I haven't looked back since (this was in August 2001).asdfjklhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817333266372476849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-47614875169404901102010-03-25T14:55:31.217-04:002010-03-25T14:55:31.217-04:00Here's a wonderful example that highlights why...Here's a wonderful example that highlights why many people leave their faiths.<br /><br />http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/4928<br /><br />People in general, but women in particular, are often reviled in their churches for their intellectual wherewithal, whereas, outside their churches, their intellectual skills and talents are respected and appreciated.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-8253336092467641932010-03-25T08:54:29.005-04:002010-03-25T08:54:29.005-04:00Here's a wonderful example that highlights why...Here's a wonderful example that highlights why many people leave their faiths.<br /><br />http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/4928<br /><br />People in general, but women in particular, are often reviled in their churches for their intellectual wherewithal, whereas, outside their churches, their intellectual skills and talents are respected and appreciated.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-27645658532479018212010-03-24T18:34:42.716-04:002010-03-24T18:34:42.716-04:00The first part was trying to reconcile the call fo...The first part was trying to reconcile the call for holiness and its attendant self-loathing with a distinct lack of growing in grace or any answer to prayers for direction, growth or comfort over the course of seven years.<br /><br />Later on, people like Feuerbach and Pascal Boyer as well as <a href="http://www.glennwallis.com/" rel="nofollow">one of my old professors</a> helped lay the foundation for a break and showed me that religion was what we tend to do as human beings. Ultimately it was learning about the anthropic principle and breaking the world from any need of the miraculous which undercut any need for talking about God and allowed me to call myself an atheist and remove quite a bit of emotional baggage.NightComesOnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00270636109500774911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-82642841098142060742010-03-24T08:05:00.066-04:002010-03-24T08:05:00.066-04:00I left because I could not understand why christia...I left because I could not understand why christians seem to be so pious and smug towards people who do not believe the same as they did.<br /><br />Also when I was in business for myself, I noticed that people who made it a point to declare their christianty up front, a lot of them tried to cheat me out of my money and I caught them in so many lies as to why they could not pay me.<br /><br />Then I began to wonder, just what exactly would cause a person or persons to think and believe they were somehow special above other humans?<br /><br />This type of thinking led me to the source, religious holy books!<br /><br />Then I began to wonder just exactly how did these religious holy books get over here to this continent?<br /><br />The white Europeans, before the white Europeans came over here around 1492, there had never been a bible, church, or black slaves on American soil.<br /><br />The indigenous peoples, the American Indians had no need, nor a use for the white mans religion, they lived a very successful life thousands of years without a bible god or a rose again savior. <br /><br />I also noticed, there are not any Indian graves beside a christain church, they are all buried with white and black Europeans. <br /><br />Mostly white people buried beside their white dominated church and the black people buried beside their black dominated church. <br /><br />Had the Europeans really believed in love thy brother as yourself, we would have been living along side the Indians in peace and harmony.<br /><br />But the christians run the Indians off their own land and killed most of them.<br /><br />Thank you Jebus for spreading your precious love and teachings and allowing you to kill millions of Indians!!!<br /><br />America The Christian Nation, ride on and conquer in Jebus' holy name!!!Steven Bentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16139666223082953913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-87454341962433500912010-03-24T02:58:47.325-04:002010-03-24T02:58:47.325-04:00Breck
Please stop presenting your case as if it h...Breck<br /><br />Please stop presenting your case as if it holds to an empirical standard. Your use of prayer despite its proven inefficacy indicates you are nothing more than a run of the mill 21st century American Evangekical Christian. Your "question everything" stance is contradicted by your insistence towards prayer. I'd wager you are a college student indoctrinated by campus crusade or the navigators. I also think you seem mentally ill.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15657598456196932490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30716576029658417892010-03-23T21:26:23.128-04:002010-03-23T21:26:23.128-04:00Exploring the Unknowable said...
---"Walkbyfa...Exploring the Unknowable said...<br />---"Walkbyfaith,<br /><br />You need to stop with this "we can't question the Bible" nonsense. You could summarily claim that about any book you wanted, and it would produce exactly the same effect. It would do nothing to convince other people of your position, and it is a CONVERSATION STOPPER!"<br /><br />Yeah and its just a mean old bully tactic,specially when they start the you`ll "end up in hell"...and "become responsible" for taking your family there.<br /><br />This is plain old manipulative mind control CULT speak.Its all about control by fear.<br /><br />Its been used for years and is designed to try to confuse and worry the heck out of folks like Amy B, who find themselves deep in thought.<br /><br />Personally i think its nasty, sickening, gutless, and lowly.<br /><br />And yet these faithful folk have the gall to try to suggest nasty dictators we have experienced in the world, learned their nasty agressive dictator talents from atheism!?.<br /><br />When will faithful folk learn some honesty and check out the sad attitude of faith people like Walkbyfaith ? ...Notice only one person named Breckmin even bothered! to speak up in defence against these obvious bully fear (threat) tactics.<br /><br />Thanks Breckmin!!,i might not agree with you on your faith,and my conversations with you might even sometimes be heated ...But im impressed! that you still display some (decent honest humanity).<br /><br />Exploring the Unknowable is correct--> "You need to stop with this "we can't question the Bible" nonsense." Walkbyfaith<br /><br />Like ive already stated its silly bully tactics (designed by cult dictators) to control people with fear!....Because Walkbyfaith wouldnt likely warn some Muslim for daring to question the Islam faith ...now would he<br /><br />No, Walkbyfaith would very quickly! change his tune, and be right there egging the Muslim on to question.If it was a Muslim believer of Islam,walkbyfaith would be suggesting they "battle the intelect all day" with regards to decisions of continued faith in Islam.<br /><br />The Christians are quite happy! to stand in the streets asking folks to question their beliefs,asking them to considder converting to Christianity.<br /><br />If Walkbyfaith has any honest decency and credibility as a Christian,i suggest he should try to have the guts to make a apology for his sad use of fear threats.<br /><br />............................<br /><br />Amy B ...personally if i need to place myself in some catagory,i would call myself a agnostic/atheist.I feel i have not yet enough evidence to be absolutely sure that no god/s or supernatural beings exist,but i dont see and decent evidence for them either.<br /><br />One thing i personally feel very comfortable! about is not following those who follow guessed faiths.People guessing faith has historically very often been proven as (all to often) being harmful dangerous and nasty.<br /><br />Should i see good evidence of a god/s arrive, whos ways and demands of us humans, can be said as honestly understood and proved.Then i would then see good enough reason to become faithful.Gandolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624178234332819107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-73900833039841549772010-03-23T20:45:34.743-04:002010-03-23T20:45:34.743-04:00To address the specific prayer - praying for prote...To address the specific prayer - praying for protection. This comes from an application of Matthew 6:13. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."<br /><br />It is because of the evil one (specifically unclean deceiving spirits - which/who are everywhere) that WE as cognitive beings need protection from deception.<br /><br />The Christian needs protection from deception as well. The components of deception (possibilities, invalid inductions and false assumptions based on circular reasonings) are everywhere just as imperfection and equivocation is everywhere.<br /><br />More clarification is needed. It is the Holy Spirit of God Who opens our eyes up to the Perfect Logos of God. Prayer is needed to "see" the Truth of the Word of God.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-77113742292949527382010-03-23T20:39:32.047-04:002010-03-23T20:39:32.047-04:00"Breckmin,why do you think,that praying is ne..."Breckmin,why do you think,that praying is needed? For the sake of argument,let's assume there is a very anthropocentric theistic god.Isn't he supposed to be able to figure out,what'd be a good thing to do?"<br /><br /><br />Not only can He "figure it out" (clearly He doesn't figure like a man since He is omniscient)but He already KNOWS it before you even ask.<br /><br />So why pray if God is omniscient?<br /><br />This is an important question and it deals with the "relationship" we have with God as His children.<br /><br />Our prayer is spiritual interaction and fellowship. It is NOT just about asking God for favors. In fact, Soren Kierkegaard said something to the effect of "Prayer does not change God, but it changes him who prays."<br /><br />Why? Because God is both immutable and omniscient. But being "immutable" isn't about non-functioning or a frozen state since God is spiritual. It has to do with the substance of "being" (not God being "a being" but rather *the* being of God's existence or ontological existence which can be inclusive of certain variance (that I logically will not define).<br /><br />So "why is praying needed?" Prayer is for us and God can 'move' and change things (circumstances) around us based on how we beseech Him. Yes, God already KNOWS that He will do this..<br /><br />He also knows that we will pray.<br /><br />Question everything.<br /><br />Prayer is a form of worship and it is FOR the one who prays as well as the for the one whom which the person praying prays for.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-75999108148054680562010-03-23T20:14:27.448-04:002010-03-23T20:14:27.448-04:00"So when i say that your god is impossible be..."So when i say that your god is impossible because the words people use" <br /><br />This is very important.<br /><br />Notice that it is "the words people use" which you then take and try and disprove God with.<br /><br />Do you really think that this invalidates an Infinite Creator?<br /><br />Here's the problem. Imperfection is everywhere and we are all learning. Everyone is at different stages of learning so of course their will be minor disagreements on the details.<br /><br />More importantly it is important to be as precise as you can. The problem comes when Christians and unbelievers attempt to be concise.<br /><br />Concision is impossible when striving for precision BECAUSE of the imperfection of language.<br /><br />So when you take a statement from a Christian or a Pastor...these are the "words of men" even though they may communicate the perfect "logic/reason/word of God."<br /><br />When you or even (more often, btw)a Christian present Christianity or Christian doctrine incorrectly, it is going to be easy to nitpick at its imperfection with hyper technicality in order to expose contradiction.<br /><br />That doesn't mean that there isn't a logical answer once you explain it correctly...what it means is that the person making the assertion has presented it incorrectly.<br /><br />I am often accused of "moving the goalposts" or the "no true Scottsman" fallacy...but what people don't realize is that all I am doing is clarifying what needed to be indentified and correctly explained.<br /><br />It is NOT a fallacy...it is rather a clarification about what is meant by the Christian doctrine....and the reason(s) for it.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34175743421606020592010-03-23T20:10:05.971-04:002010-03-23T20:10:05.971-04:00"You believe in a book that has talking anima..."You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we need help?" Mark Twain<br /><br />j guevaraj guevarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05080206047845044436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-25670095230576182832010-03-23T19:38:15.272-04:002010-03-23T19:38:15.272-04:00Breckmin,why do you think,that praying is needed? ...Breckmin,why do you think,that praying is needed? For the sake of argument,let's assume there is a very anthropocentric theistic god.Isn't he supposed to be able to figure out,what'd be a good thing to do?Raulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07044923386251931322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6227650804078979772010-03-23T19:18:11.794-04:002010-03-23T19:18:11.794-04:00"EVERYTHING is open to questioning. Even Brec..."EVERYTHING is open to questioning. Even Breckmin agrees with that in principle,"<br /><br />Yes, if you do not question then you will never know all of the reasons "why" you believe what it is that you believe.<br /><br />But I believe in something very specific with respect to questioning. It is the principle of "praying for protection."<br /><br />I believe that scientific evidence clearly points to agnostic theism. I believe that there are various other way in which you can know that there is a Creator. <br /><br />Praying for protection comes once the Creator is "concluded." You can also pray, "Lord, IF you exist - then "please" save me from myself and my own deception."<br /><br />The fear and the reverence for the Holy Creator is the "beginning" of wisdom.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-41388903393231373872010-03-23T19:06:36.178-04:002010-03-23T19:06:36.178-04:00I left Because:
There came a time in my life when...I left Because:<br /><br />There came a time in my life when I realized that <b>truth and Christianity were not the same.</b><br /><br />Christianity needs both creeds and dogmas to go unquestioned in order to exist. Thus, without truth being set (but drawn only from theology (<b>making God logical Theo = god + logy = the study of</b>)); there is now over 20,000 Christianities (plural) ALL claiming to have more “truth” than the others <b>making Christianity a little more than a human construct of subjectivity.</b> <br /><br />This applies to the debate between St. Paul and his opponents (St. Peter) and Jewish Christianity (Palestine) vs. Hellenistic Christianity (Asia Minor). <br /><br />It was in such a context that I had to make a choice to <b>either be religious (Christian) or honest: I choose honestly.</b><br /><br />Fact is, Jesus’ love is not the central theme of Christianity nor is Jesus himself, <b>but competing Christianities = competing truths.</b> <br /><br />Also, the strict limitation on, not only what courses can be taught at conservative Christian colleges and universities, but just who is allowed to teach. By limiting courses (Example: Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Text with that of the LXX, Targums (Aramaic / Syriac)) conservative schools have subjectively created a Christian illusion that never existed.<br /><br />The final straw for me came with the Southern Baptist Convention and their doctrinal booklet The Baptist Quarterly. I was asked to leave our Sunday school class; <b>not because I was immoral; not because I was unethical; not because I was rude; but simply because I placed the Hebrew Bible and New Testament in their historical contexts.</b><br /><br />I now define myself as an relative atheist (one who rejects the Biblical god) and not an absolute atheist (one who rejects any god and in this respect, I am an agnostic).<br /><br />You are who you are based on what you know and understand about the Bible and I am, likewise, also the same.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-59228936725473577222010-03-23T17:49:25.531-04:002010-03-23T17:49:25.531-04:00Scott,
Walk by faith can know god's nature be...Scott,<br /><br />Walk by faith can know god's nature because he probably suffers from acute Paranoid Schizophrenia.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15657598456196932490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-11767211124459771822010-03-23T16:55:35.455-04:002010-03-23T16:55:35.455-04:00Walk by faith wrote: If you can prove that there i...Walk by faith wrote: <b>If you can prove that there is no God than continue in your thinking.</b><br /><br />Walk, we do not need to "prove" that God does not exist anymore than you need to "prove" that Jesus didn't visit the North American indians or that Mohammed isn't the true prophet, rather than Jesus. <br /><br />If there is a supernatural realm, all of these scenarios are just as "possible" as another. Yet I'm guessing you do not pray towards Mecca or wear "magic underwear", just because you cannot "prove" Mormonism or Islam is true. <br /><br />Not only must you assume that God exists - you must also assume you know what God's nature is, in detail including why God intentionally hides from us, allows gratuitous suffering, etc. <br /><br />But If I cannot prove that God doesn't exist, how is it that you can know God's nature?Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193595678064010528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-25464461951050849102010-03-23T14:45:31.090-04:002010-03-23T14:45:31.090-04:00I left because Christianity stands or falls on its...I left because Christianity stands or falls on its supernatural claims, and I realized there is no good reason to believe any supernatural claim.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10639000059433742235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-48516589040223627562010-03-23T14:37:25.164-04:002010-03-23T14:37:25.164-04:00I left because it felt like a cult. I saw too muc...I left because it felt like a cult. I saw too much group think without any application of logic or reasoning. Bible contradictions & picking & choosing which bible verses to apply also made me leave. Many of the questions I asked could not be answered by those in authority. This made me think that they themselves did not know the bible.Ex-Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08540718386219400108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10180615209617597892010-03-23T13:45:56.719-04:002010-03-23T13:45:56.719-04:00---
Walkbyfaith,
That's it??
That's the...---<br /><br />Walkbyfaith,<br /><br />That's it??<br /><br />That's the last word??<br /><br />You aren't going to try and engage us in a discussion about the issues that we brought up and you just summarily dismissed, as if they didn't exist?<br /><br />Once you brought up Ray Comfort, I should have known immediately what I was getting into. Ray Comfort doesn't like to engage in dicussion either. He continually clings to the authority of the Bible, without EVER showing why the Bible has any authority. He claims to know things that he CAN'T possibly know, and he dismisses all viewpoints that disagree with his as the product of a stubborn heart that is a priori anti-supernatural.<br /><br />Ray Comfort is obnoxious, to say the least, and listening to him did little for me as a believer, and virtually nothing for me as a skeptic. He adds nothing to the debate, and doesn't even make me think about anything. William Lane Craig, an apologetics giant, at the very least, makes me inquire about things. Ray Comfort makes me cringe.<br /><br />Walkbyfaith, DON'T follow in the footsteps of Comfort. I know of several Christians who think his antics are ridiculous and his methods preposterous. His Romans Road method of evangelizing is the only portion of his M.O. that has any Biblical basis. Otherwise, he is a charlatan and a sower of misinformation.Exploring the Unknowablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267687022642518868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80114208154361036452010-03-23T13:45:28.699-04:002010-03-23T13:45:28.699-04:00Good riddance to walkbyfaith and his friends.
He ...Good riddance to walkbyfaith and his friends.<br /><br />He says we're trying to prove there is no god. I don't think that's the case at all, and I don't think anyone can prove that one way or the other, except maybe philosophically.<br /><br />What we CAN prove is that Bible-God is a figment of man's imagination, a total fairy tale.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06201138650524912126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-74741142237501258032010-03-23T13:27:07.291-04:002010-03-23T13:27:07.291-04:00Walk by Faith,
Try Geodon. It is supposed to wor...Walk by Faith,<br /><br />Try Geodon. It is supposed to work on both Bi-polar and Schizophrenia. You seem to have mild cognitive function so there might be hope for you with some prescription drug assistance.<br /><br />Here's the website:<br />http://www.geodon.com/Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15657598456196932490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-12319363412886964312010-03-23T13:22:47.898-04:002010-03-23T13:22:47.898-04:00I Walkbyfaith doesn't know about Ray Comfort.I Walkbyfaith doesn't know about Ray Comfort.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04547766582911955996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-58039130295934185772010-03-23T13:06:00.758-04:002010-03-23T13:06:00.758-04:00Walkbyfaith.
Naaa!!!!Walkbyfaith.<br /><br />Naaa!!!!shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118637281630775156noreply@blogger.com