tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post6819976562932121688..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Bible InconsistenciesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10323340476713779372008-09-27T12:56:00.000-04:002008-09-27T12:56:00.000-04:00Blogger DBULL said... you said nothing. filling ...Blogger DBULL said... <BR/>you said nothing. <BR/>filling a post with cut-n-paste these clippings, with no input from you qualifying some kind of point you made?<BR/><BR/>Inane.<BR/><BR/>If this is the best you got... At least attempt to help your team.<BR/><BR/>maybe you should take a breather, go out and buy a tape measure. And then, after some introspection, decide if this is the appropriate venue for you. There are starter groups somewhere.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11609575419370484487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-31153117189586003512008-09-27T12:47:00.000-04:002008-09-27T12:47:00.000-04:00Blogger DBULL said...Romans 12:5 so we, who are m...Blogger DBULL said...<BR/><BR/>Romans 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.<BR/><BR/>So which is it, are we many or are we one? Both. Is that a contradiction? <BR/><BR/>uh, don't really want to break your bubble...it wasn't meant to be a contradiction. It doesn't have the structure, or elements of a contradiction. <BR/><BR/>you might want to kinda do a refresher course, here. English Grammar <BR/>you might be able to avoid your next embarrasment.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11609575419370484487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-54106607928983475322008-09-27T12:38:00.000-04:002008-09-27T12:38:00.000-04:00Blogger John W. Loftus said... I think those w...Blogger John W. Loftus said...<BR/><BR/> I think those who try to define inerrancy force it to die the death of a thousand qualifications, so to speak. <BR/><BR/>An absolutist is such a sweet target, isn't he? He makes those claims, and just sets himself up for the vultures. There are few, if any absolutes (excluding me). It is not even an absolute that 2+2=4.<BR/>It's part of the Theory of Mathematics.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11609575419370484487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26777101295560353422008-09-27T12:33:00.000-04:002008-09-27T12:33:00.000-04:00Without the Holy Spirit living within you (the aut...Without the Holy Spirit living within you (the author) how do you expect to understand what the bible says? <BR/><BR/>A weak, (and that's a stretch) cop out. A lttle better than "It's god's will". These absolutes kill me. The door slammer that reinforces your unsupportable denial of alternative possibilities. <BR/><BR/>If you had the inner courage, or HONESTY or intelligence to concede a contradiction, you wouldn't get hammered so much. A post wouldn't morph into insulting. You actually have at the very least, sinned. Think arrogance. <BR/><BR/>I'm looking for honest intelligent answers, to honest, possibly exposed inconsistencies. I don't say I'm right, I'm just looking for an answer from anybody with an education higher than a pre-school drop-out.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11609575419370484487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-59780766502031792462008-09-27T12:15:00.000-04:002008-09-27T12:15:00.000-04:00I'm an inerrantist only insofar as I have yet to s...I'm an inerrantist only insofar as I have yet to see a good error.<BR/><BR/>huh?<BR/>That was satire, right? A conditional inderrantist.. <BR/><BR/>A good error?<BR/>Now we're parsing errors, Whats the error scoring system? <BR/><BR/><BR/>Bill Clinton had better arguments.<BR/>"I guess that depends on the meaning of "is""<BR/>"Oral sex is not sex"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11609575419370484487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51072029312363890032008-08-06T22:28:00.000-04:002008-08-06T22:28:00.000-04:00There is an additional error in the story of David...There is an additional error in the story of David and Ahimelech as told in Mark, besides getting the priest’s name wrong. In Mark 2:26, Jesus speaks of David and “those who were with him.” But David had no one with him when he “entered the house of God,” as we see from the question which Ahimelech poses to him: “Why are you alone, and no one with you?” (1 Samuel 21:1) (cited from www.atheistsbiblecompanion.com, in the comment to Mark 2:26) <BR/> It’s also important to note that it’s not just contradictions that undermine the Bible. There are many passages which, when viewed with other passages, are perhaps not contradictory, but highly implausible. So the improbabilities are just as damaging as the strict contradictions. In a forum such as this, there is never enough space to fully lay out the arguments as to why the Bible should not be taken as divinely inspired, but there are more resources available now that give a fuller treatment to these issues. In addition to the www.atheistsbiblecompanion.com which I already cited, there is a new book that just focuses on the contradictions and difficulties of the New Testament. It is <I>The Atheist’s Introduction to the New Testament</I>, by Mike Davis, and it will give the Christians fits – if they ever dare to read it.Makrothenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13860468790064710141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37664767837649546862008-07-06T12:56:00.000-04:002008-07-06T12:56:00.000-04:00John 10:26-27"but you do not believe because you a...John 10:26-27<BR/>"but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Even if provided with all the evidence in the world, the non-elect are incapable of belief. If you are not part of the flock, you will not believe. So argue about inconsistencies/contradictions all you want, even if these were removed, and Jesus Himself came down and slapped you upside the head, you would not believe.ChrisMattGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15821736241834667450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-69470644705877554942008-01-01T10:37:00.000-05:002008-01-01T10:37:00.000-05:00So, do you all believe different authors just made...So, do you all believe different authors just made up similar stories by chance? And peoples own experiences with temptation, demons, the Holy Spirit and eye witness accounts of Jesus after the resurrection are just made up? If so why do you believe they would make up a religion in which they were persecuted under? Do you believe Jesus actually existed or do you believe someone just decided to make him up one day too. What about all the prophesies fulfilled in Jesus?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11396485787948706231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29140003477622900102007-10-07T15:50:00.000-04:002007-10-07T15:50:00.000-04:00An excellent post. It effectively sums up the enti...An excellent post. It effectively sums up the entire issue in a concise and reasonable fashion. This was easily one of the most important issues in contributing to my own "deconversion," and it pains me to this day that so few belivers understand (or make any <I>attempt</I> to understand) the convoluted origins of their own sacred Scriptures.Calebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17175173998016520555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61249227721857548462007-09-24T17:17:00.000-04:002007-09-24T17:17:00.000-04:00If arguments like these were so compelling there w...<I>If arguments like these were so compelling there wouldn't be many Christians around.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, if you (like many Evangelicals) do not consider Catholics to be Christians, then you just made an argument for Islam, which would be the most popular religion, followed by Catholicism, followed by Hinduism, followed by Bhuddism, followed by Protestants.<BR/><BR/>And the Non-religious/atheists outnumber the Hindus, suggesting that an awful lot of people see through all 31 flavors of nonsense.<BR/><BR/>As P.T. Barnum well knew, people are willing to believe all kinds of crazy shit, as long as it makes them feel good, helps them belong to a crowd, or is weird enough to be novel.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-27514612807180667072007-09-24T15:15:00.000-04:002007-09-24T15:15:00.000-04:00I like to think of it as a frequency that some are...I like to think of it as a frequency that some aren't tuned into. Perhaps believers have a tuner/receiver in their brains that's tuned into a frequency that picks up a signal from the Almighty that unbelievers aren't tuned into. It's not that they can't, its just that they haven't turned the dial or rearranged their pre-sets.Chris Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134785155889204025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-28290633614071058312007-09-24T11:36:00.000-04:002007-09-24T11:36:00.000-04:00Christopher said, "I am a Christian, and I don't f...Christopher said, "I am a Christian, and I don't find that these biblical inconsistencies undermine what I believe."<BR/><BR/>Then what would it take for you to lose your confidence in the Bible? I'm guessing that you're not even thinking in such terms--I wasn't when I was a sincere believer. I had no intention of making contingency plans. <BR/><BR/>"If arguments like these were so compelling there wouldn't be many Christians around."<BR/><BR/>That's a good question, but not a valid argument against the evidence. Many Christians (again, such as myself) never seriously and studiously explored the skeptic's objections to faith. My only exposure to them was by way of Norm Geisler's "When Critics Ask" and other thick volumes of explanations for the many contradictions of the Bible. They provided answers, but (unbeknown to me) they weren't adequately explore the spectrum of skeptical argumentation, nor the depth of such arguments. <BR/><BR/>"In the end the inconsistencies outlined here are not surprising considering how ancient the texts are, but the bible is surprisingly consistent in so many other ways."<BR/><BR/>No, they aren't surprising at all. The Bible is a painfully human book. A truly "God-breathed" tome would not contain errors of any sort. Psalm 119 claims as much. That is, if your conception of God is that he is all-knowing, ever-present, and able to do anything. Perhaps he put the errors in there deliberately because he loves confusion (Deut. 28:28)?<BR/><BR/>"The fact that the bible has these issues lends credibility to the document instead of undermining it in my view."<BR/><BR/>Do you lend the same sort of credibility to the Koran and the Book of Mormon? Why not? They too record certain happenings with conviction. I'd love to know why you reject such books. Then I would have you apply the same level of scrutiny to your own Book.<BR/><BR/>"Something as ancient as the bible with no errors of any kind would be more unbelievable." <BR/><BR/>I'm curious to know why you think that? I'm sure an ancient book with superior knowledge and zero errors would convince the world that there is a God! <BR/><BR/>"Anyway for me, there are more compelling reasons to believe then these types of arguments compel me not to believe."<BR/><BR/>Ok, we have a good conversation going here. The ball is back in your court. What compelling reasons cause you to believe?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-55419812541352121732007-09-23T23:37:00.000-04:002007-09-23T23:37:00.000-04:00I am a Christian, and I don't find that these bibl...I am a Christian, and I don't find that these biblical inconsistencies undermine what I believe. If arguments like these were so compelling there wouldn't be many Christians around. It's not like these are new issues that Christians need to account for. <BR/><BR/>I am very aware of the inconsistent genealogy of Jesus, the different time line for the cleansing in John's Gospel etc. What I ask myself if these inconsistencies really undermines the main story. That Jesus was crucified, died, and rose again three days later. <BR/><BR/>In the end the inconsistencies outlined here are not surprising considering how ancient the texts are, but the bible is surprisingly consistent in so many other ways. <BR/><BR/>I don't see how these say anything directly about whether the events they speak about actually happened or not. For example, the four gospels tell us that a cleansing in the temple happened. It is also consistently reported to us that Jesus died on the cross, and was alive again three days later. If the time line from one Gospel is off it doesn't mean I have to throw out the whole story as completely false. The fact that the bible has these issues lends credibility to the document instead of undermining it in my view. Something as ancient as the bible with no errors of any kind would be more unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>Anyway for me, there are more compelling reasons to believe then these types of arguments compel me not to believe.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09181558239605588633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-68369060882824570662007-09-22T06:35:00.000-04:002007-09-22T06:35:00.000-04:00Maybe the spirit of Richard Feynman?"I think it is...Maybe the spirit of Richard Feynman?<BR/><BR/>"I think it is safe to say that no one understands quantum mechanics."<BR/>-Richard Feynman <BR/><BR/>OK maybe not.<BR/><BR/>How about Schrödinger?<BR/><BR/>"I do not like [Quantum Physics], and I am sorry I ever had anything to do with it."<BR/>-Erwin Schrödinger<BR/><BR/>Maybe I should end my comments with /sarcasm ;-)Stu Sherwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16603375086735847395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-20853685606074933372007-09-21T23:14:00.000-04:002007-09-21T23:14:00.000-04:00LOL thanks, Shygetz. You made my weekend!LOL thanks, Shygetz. You made my weekend!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30311832734845589292007-09-21T22:19:00.000-04:002007-09-21T22:19:00.000-04:00stu, whose spirit can I appeal to in order to trul...stu, whose spirit can I appeal to in order to truly understand quantum mechanics?<BR/><BR/>'Cause that one's a real bitch.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70197843172155115082007-09-21T21:25:00.000-04:002007-09-21T21:25:00.000-04:00It's true, without the Holy Spirit living inside y...It's true, without the Holy Spirit living inside you, you can never understand or appreciate the Bible.<BR/><BR/>Just like without the spirit of Charles Darwin living inside you, you can't hope to understand or criticise the Origin of Species.<BR/><BR/>And anyone trying to understand the theory of relativity who isn't trusting the spirit of Einstein to guide them hasn't a chance.Stu Sherwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16603375086735847395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-87686229931163048992007-09-20T22:22:00.000-04:002007-09-20T22:22:00.000-04:00Uh oh....someone's brought out the Holy Spirit cla...Uh oh....someone's brought out the Holy Spirit claim...here we go...Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90001902489445350022007-09-20T17:44:00.000-04:002007-09-20T17:44:00.000-04:00So let me get this straight DBULL and Dan: unless ...So let me get this straight DBULL and Dan: unless someone has "the Holy Spirit" (as defined by your understanding of Scripture) living within them, then that person cannot evaluate the relative truthfulness of the Bible in any way, shape or form? I just want a yes or no answer on that.<BR/><BR/>BTW, how can you even tell--experientially--if you have the Holy Spirit or not? If you say the "fruits of the Spirit," then why is it that non-believers are able to show fruits of love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, etc. If you say they can't, then you're not looking around you. There are plenty of good people of all faiths and no faith who don't have your understanding of the Holy Spirit. It just sounds like an easy out to me. So then why do you even bother engaging in dialog with a group of no-good atheists, agnostics, and backsliders like us? To flaunt your superior knowledge and status before God? To rub in that the rest of us have no hope of ever understanding the Bible, because we don't have the Holy Spirit? C'mon, guys. At what point do you say to yourself, "Gee, my arguments are getting way out there. I really don't have an honest answer to the Bible's inconsistencies. I just believe it, that's all, I don't really have a reason beyond that."<BR/><BR/>Irishfarmer, I half-way see myself in you--you're me about 10 years ago--so I have some natural respect because of the similarity in conviction. However, I don't respect the fact that when confronted with the evidence you can't admit a problem exists with Biblical consistency or the so-called Messianic prophecies. Blame these problems on anything but God if you want, but at least admit that there are some very real, obvious problems! The things John brought up in this article would trouble me if I were in your shoes (I was...they did!). You'd recognize similar types of inconsistencies in the Koran or the Book of Mormon, wouldn't you? And you're quick to point out what you feel are inconsistencies in the articles here. Why not bring the same level of intellectual curiosity and honest to the Scriptures?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-2080087256036176132007-09-20T16:18:00.000-04:002007-09-20T16:18:00.000-04:00I'm not trying to be rude (this time), but someon...I'm not trying to be rude (this time), but someone enlighten me about this mustard seed business? No, I'm serious. Does the Bible say the mustard seed is the smallest seed? And is it, in fact, the smallest seed?<BR/><BR/>How is this a matter of having or not having the holy spirit in you?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-24143034983527935362007-09-20T16:05:00.000-04:002007-09-20T16:05:00.000-04:00dbull said (and dan marvin agrees) "Without the Ho...dbull said (and dan marvin agrees) <I>"Without the Holy Spirit living within you (the author) how do you expect to understand what the bible says?"</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, and unless you believe in ESP, it doesn't work. Unless you believe in the revelation of John Smith, you cannot understand the brilliant Truth of the <I>Book of Mormon</I>. Unless you have been touched by His Noodly Appendage, you cannot understand the glory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Parmesean Be Upon Him).<BR/><BR/>Unless you believe in faeries, you can't see them. It's called special pleading, and it's not allowed. Try again.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80740720662376486152007-09-20T14:41:00.000-04:002007-09-20T14:41:00.000-04:00Wow. Didn't realize you were going to hurl so man...Wow. Didn't realize you were going to hurl so many elephants, John. :) <BR/><BR/>Actually, its not that bad, I can answer several of your contradictions at once in many cases. <BR/><BR/>I'm an inerrantist only insofar as I have yet to see a good error. That rooster crowing thingy sounds like it might be good, but I haven't looked into it quite yet.IrishFarmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09660604957080273563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-24900033610608022382007-09-20T13:28:00.000-04:002007-09-20T13:28:00.000-04:00DBULL said... "Without the Holy Spirit living with...DBULL said... <B>"Without the Holy Spirit living within you (the author) how do you expect to understand what the bible says?"</B><BR/><BR/><BR/>Nothing more needs to be said? Good one DBullD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-86246892184545217482007-09-20T12:07:00.000-04:002007-09-20T12:07:00.000-04:00Great post, John.dbull: How are the killer of Goli...Great post, John.<BR/><BR/>dbull: How are the killer of Goliath, the number of time's the cock crowed, or the day of the week of the temple incident comparable to the figurative language of Romans 12:5?<BR/><BR/>Ulyanov: I can't speak for John, but I know I have several moral quibbles with salvation religions, Jesus's death, and the god of the OT that would remain even if Jesus came to speak to me personally. Whether something is likely to be true and whether something is appealing to an individual are two different questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-40480812753782300512007-09-20T11:47:00.000-04:002007-09-20T11:47:00.000-04:00John: A brilliant post, I second Lee's praise of i...John: A brilliant post, I second Lee's praise of it. A minor quibble -- (oh, stop groaning!) -- doesn't the 'two source hypothesis' just refer to the synoptics, with John seen as a much later work not dependent on 'proto-Mark' and Q?<BR/><BR/>I wish you'd also dealt with the four sources of the Pentateuch, which seems to be as confirmed as anything in the study of the history of the Bible -- and has been for nearly 3 centuries.<BR/><BR/>Again (and I'm not arguing, just handing you more arrows for the quiver) there are those stories that are obviously unhistorical because if they had been true, somebody -- other than the Biblical mythagogues -- would have noticed. I mean things like Matthew's 'slaughter of the innocents' and 'march of the dead,' the drowning of Pharaoh and his army -- which would have caused some neighboring country to invade -- and the wealth of Solomon's kingdom.Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.com