tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post6583383822770399116..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: What Would You Want to See More of Here at DC?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-75112729427726364292008-11-20T14:38:00.000-05:002008-11-20T14:38:00.000-05:00Thankfully, discussion of Benny Hinn and Robert Ti...Thankfully, discussion of Benny Hinn and Robert Tilton has been voted off the blog.<BR/><BR/>I wonder, though -- if there is anything new under the sun, with respect to Biblical issues and the historical Jesus. Occasionally home historical corroboration will appear in sands where none was known before. But mostly corroboration is and will always be sketchy at best, and that doesn't deter anyone from believing what he thinks ought be so. <BR/><BR/>Biblical science, at least, is patently falsifiable. And yet people still look up and consider that the lights rest upon a domed "firmament" like the planetarium at the science museum, which we like better as an IMAX theater.<BR/><BR/>About the one comfort is knowing that again and again scientific knowledge trumps scriptural knowledge and both trump arcane "knowlege" in predicting what will be, given a set of facts. Could that have been said in the age of phlogiston and sponteneous generation?<BR/><BR/>I'm interested in some of what John brings up about the paucity of evidence of a relationship between religiousity and social well being, and how we adjust as a people to the emergence of scientific knowledge as a worthy (based on Biblical criteria of reliable foresight) source of moral instruction.BobCMU76https://www.blogger.com/profile/09124766832330905279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-17542463773650084652008-11-20T05:11:00.000-05:002008-11-20T05:11:00.000-05:00Here are the results:Biblical Issues/Problems 106...Here are the results:<BR/><BR/>Biblical Issues/Problems 106 (40%)<BR/> <BR/>Possibility of Miracles 35 (13%)<BR/> <BR/>Science and the Bible 89 (33%)<BR/> <BR/>Problem of Evil 62 (23%)<BR/> <BR/>Arguments/ God’s Existence 88 (33%)<BR/> <BR/>Resurrection of Jesus 63 (23%)<BR/> <BR/>History of the Church 75 (28%)<BR/> <BR/>Psychology of Belief 90 (33%)<BR/> <BR/>Presuppositionalism 42 (15%)<BR/> <BR/>Historicity of Jesus 112 (42%)<BR/> <BR/>Current/ Social Issues 45 (16%)<BR/> <BR/>Video Debates 68 (25%)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-8632972931053151992008-11-17T14:58:00.000-05:002008-11-17T14:58:00.000-05:00Philip - Do you have children? I do. I want them t...Philip - Do you have children? I do. I want them to succeed more than anything. I can talk until I am blue in the face, but until they experience many things, success and failures, on their own...well, my words don't mean much to them. I never set them up to fail. I guess I don't see the human race as a failure. I don't see God's creation as failure. Who are we to say what is cosmically right or wrong. What we as individuals see or experience is tiny compared to everything that happens and has happened since the beginning of time. How is it that we can say it is wrong, when we have no idea of what is yet to come?<BR/><BR/>Oh, and thank you, I do think before I type...it just isn't the same thing you think. I honestly enjoy hearing others thoughts...I don't have to be "right" and neither to they, if we are in a discussion about God I have no problem with the fact you think He doesn't exist and yet I do think He exists...Isn't it possible to discuss without someone having to say "Oh, you are completely right and now I will change my own point of view"? I don't imagine that you will be doing that, and I know that I won't. But I do find your perspective interesting and thought provoking...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42072343399285397462008-11-17T14:16:00.000-05:002008-11-17T14:16:00.000-05:00Heather,You're saying that your god purposely set ...Heather,<BR/><BR/>You're saying that your god purposely set up every human to fail and go to Hell just to make going to Heaven all the more wonderful for the few that do. <BR/><BR/>Dont you get it? If God had set things up right in the first place, no one would HAVE to be saved by Jesus. Your god, however, chose not to. Whose parents set their children up to fail miserably just to humiliate them and teach them lessons? Your comparison of God to a parent is an insult to the goodness of every kind parent.<BR/><BR/> I honestly wonder if you think about what you write before you write it.Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-72403731731446733002008-11-17T10:23:00.000-05:002008-11-17T10:23:00.000-05:00Phillip,Don't have time this week. There are volu...Phillip,<BR/><BR/>Don't have time this week. There are volumes of scholarly exegesis on that passage. Check them and figure out for yourself.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I gave the same amount of evidence you did ;)davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08071763988772047093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34498675207150968692008-11-17T10:03:00.000-05:002008-11-17T10:03:00.000-05:00Philip - I suppose if all Muslims go to Heaven and...Philip - I suppose if all Muslims go to Heaven and all Christians go to hell, I guess I will be in good company. :) I have 100% Faith in the Christian God, in Jesus. I don't need anything else, anything different. <BR/><BR/>In my mind, I relate what God does as what a parent does. If the people had not tried and failed at keeping sin from their life with all the regulations and rules, the significance of Jesus would not be nearly as profound. That one man would choose to die for me, and in such a way...well, it is amazing. I think with our own children, you don't want them to fail or make mistakes, but it really is a part of life, it makes them who they are as an adult...all the trials and errors, and they learn wonderful lessons, which makes success all that more wonderful when it is reached.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-69621860433533418192008-11-16T22:06:00.000-05:002008-11-16T22:06:00.000-05:00And Heather,You don't think there existed less bar...And Heather,<BR/><BR/>You don't think there existed less barbaric means of execution (you also forget to explain why it was just of God to prescribe the death penalty for working on Saturdays)? You can't seriously compare stoning to death to death by lethal injection.<BR/>And if the Old Testament was "what we tried" but it "didn't work," would that not be God's fault for coming up with a system that didn't work?Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-79543809845360190922008-11-16T21:57:00.000-05:002008-11-16T21:57:00.000-05:00Heather,Can you really afford to bet your eternal ...Heather,<BR/><BR/>Can you really afford to bet your eternal soul on that? The Qur'an plainly states that the Bible was corrupted early on, and that the Qur'an is perfect. If this is true, why would you not just take a leap of faith and believe it? We only live for so long, and eternity is forever, and Hell is too hot. The Qur'an clearly states that non-Muslims will go to Hell. Why not convert just to be on the safe side? <BR/><BR/>And David, please explain how my interpretation is "sophomoric." The Law means the Law, and "not one iota" means "not one bit", so I'd say my interpretation is fairly on. If it's not, then please correct me, but don't just say "nuh-uh" and leave it at that.Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42539347765427614562008-11-16T20:07:00.000-05:002008-11-16T20:07:00.000-05:00ismellarat - Okay, I did some researching, and yes...ismellarat - Okay, I did some researching, and yes, many different things had a punishment of death or stoning. I believe that stoning being the preferred method may have had something to do with it being a community action and what was done in those times (I don't think death by lethal injection had been invented yet). I also think that a person would assume that someone would never commit the "crime" if the punishment was so horrible...but that doesn't always work, does it. Now, I don't think it does matter in the grand scheme of things...I see the OT as this is what we tried, and it didn't work, so Jesus was born to die and save us. "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13 My understaanding is that with the death of Jesus, it was in a sense the death of the first convenant. That is why I do not focus on the OT...while it has importance, and the Psalms are so uplifting I prefer the NT. <BR/><BR/>I suppose I reject Muhammad because he is not Jesus. The only way to God is through His son Jesus. I believe that is true and if that makes me closed minded, I guess I better get some thick skin (I prefer to think of myself as a tolerable, open-minded person), I don't believe there is any other way to know God, but by Jesus, end of story. I know that opens me up for a huge amount of critism...but that just helps to thicken that skin! :)Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-17802905755367271442008-11-16T15:03:00.000-05:002008-11-16T15:03:00.000-05:00Ok theres a lot of B.S. getting thrown around on t...Ok theres a lot of B.S. getting thrown around on this thread.<BR/><BR/>The Muslim revelation is <B>not</B> accepted for several reasons. The Quran instructs believers to respect the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians), but do we find that happening in countries where Shari'ah law is instantiated? No. The Quran contradicts itself and the Bible, which destroys any credibility of being latter day revelation....aside from the fact that the Bible implies in Revelation that no one should add to or take away from.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Also the interpretation of "one iota" to mean all Jewish law is retained in the new covenant is sophomoric at best.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08071763988772047093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-55025122216013172582008-11-16T11:51:00.000-05:002008-11-16T11:51:00.000-05:00Heather,I strongly suggest you read the Old Testam...Heather,<BR/><BR/>I strongly suggest you read the Old Testament more thoroughly. It's the same god you worship, so you shouldn't have a problem with it. Keep in mind, when you do, how Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish the Law (Mosaic Law), and how "not one iota" of it would be taken out until the end of the world.<BR/><BR/>And you do worship the same god (the god of Abraham) that Muslims worship. They just have a different take on how things are. <BR/><BR/>And who are you to argue with them? If it's claimed that Gabriel talked to Muhammad on God's behalf, you'd be hypocritical to ignore that revelation while simultaneously accepting Moses' and Samuel's and Daniel's and Jesus' revelations as fact. Just be consistent if you want to be taken seriously.<BR/><BR/>Why do you reject Muhammad's revelation but accept Moses'? What are you criteria?Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-81481247615108974262008-11-16T11:39:00.000-05:002008-11-16T11:39:00.000-05:00Stoning was part of Biblical Law, which was handed...Stoning was part of Biblical Law, which was handed down to Moses.<BR/><BR/>By God. God = Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Just look up the verses mentioned by Wikipedia, for a quick reference.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning<BR/><BR/>Nobody who believes the Bible disputes that.<BR/><BR/>They may try and dodge the implications by saying that that was part of the old covenant - but so what?<BR/><BR/>God commanded that the Law be applied to that culture, had Jesus been there in person, he would have set the example in carrying it out, and had he been asked later, if stoning was a just punishment, according to God's (his own) Law in those times, he would have said yes.<BR/><BR/>So if you are asked if this was a just punishment, you must say yes, AND if you had been actually living during those times, you would have had to agree with a real, flesh and blood person's slow, tortured execution in this manner.<BR/><BR/>This kind of thing used to bug the hell out of me. I was just never the kind to just shoo unpleasant discoveries out of my mind.<BR/><BR/>It does give me some comfort, though, knowing that almost no Christians believe the whole package, so how can anyone blame me for doing the same?<BR/><BR/>Christians and their detractors really do have a lot in common...ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-73183264877247576652008-11-16T11:06:00.000-05:002008-11-16T11:06:00.000-05:00Ismellrat-Okay, again...please show me in the Bibl...Ismellrat-Okay, again...please show me in the Bible where God ordered stonings. I have not concentrated in the OT, so please share with me so I can read it. <BR/><BR/>If your claim is that Muslims say God tells them too do it, well...that makes little difference to me. I am sure you realize that I don't beleive in that God. <BR/><BR/>I can not fathom Jesus paricipating in a stoning. In the Bible, he encounters a woman who would meet "stoning" requirements...and yet he is kind to her and gives her advice. His goal is to save the outcasts...to help the unhelpable (is that a word?). I don't think Jesus would request me to be part of a stoning. (By the way I feel stoning someone is horribly wrong in all ways). If someone, today, claimed to be Jesus, asked me to stone an adulterer, I would first know they were not Jesus and then run other way...<BR/><BR/>I don't feel that I am distance Jesus from stoning...I simlpy am trying to have the same information you do so that I can best answer your questions...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-41913179985035335812008-11-16T06:54:00.000-05:002008-11-16T06:54:00.000-05:00I'm sorry for taking such a hard-line approach wit...I'm sorry for taking such a hard-line approach with this.<BR/><BR/>I still see much good in the church and we'd probably agree on many social issues, and in the hope that *something* good awaits us on the other side.<BR/><BR/>But I've been on this "lower plateau" for several years, now.<BR/><BR/>You might say that I just found it too hard to love both God and my neighbor at the same time.<BR/><BR/>How can I wish the best for my neighbor, and at the same time wish something like stonings, eternal Hell, etc. on them?ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-72924967278535659072008-11-16T06:40:00.000-05:002008-11-16T06:40:00.000-05:00Heather, I think you slipped up.Think about this:J...Heather, I think you slipped up.<BR/><BR/>Think about this:<BR/><BR/>Jesus is God.<BR/><BR/>God ordered such punishments to take place.<BR/><BR/>Had Jesus been on the scene in those times, he would have set the example.<BR/><BR/>Had he been asked later, he certainly couldn't have disagreed.<BR/><BR/>For extra credit, can you also explain what motivated you to apparently try and distance Jesus from stonings?<BR/><BR/>You don't believe that stonings are in and of themselves despicable - do you? (That would take some more explaining!)<BR/><BR/>So, imagine again that Jesus had been at the scene, and commanded you to carry out this sentence on a woman, much like in the video.<BR/><BR/>What would you have done?<BR/><BR/>As you think in your heart, so are you, remember.<BR/><BR/>The only available videos of stonings are by Muslims, so of course that's what I had to use, to demonstrate that all those words *really mean things*.<BR/><BR/>But the point made at that site should also apply to Christians: God did command this be done to people (whether it applies now doesn't matter) - so why don't you agree, and say you would have been willing to do the same, had you been there?<BR/><BR/>I've yet to hear a Christian say that they'd have willingly slowly bashed a woman's face in, had they been alive in those times.<BR/><BR/>A medical professional should make vivid what happens during a stoning, just as there have been widely published medical descriptions of the crucifixion.<BR/><BR/>We're all liberals now, I like to say. Some just don't like to admit it.ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33660187177674025512008-11-15T20:26:00.000-05:002008-11-15T20:26:00.000-05:00ismellarat - The muslim faith and the Christian Fa...ismellarat - The muslim faith and the Christian Faith are two totally different religions...I don't agree with the quran, or many things the muslim Faith says is good or okay...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18754227410374178742008-11-15T20:20:00.000-05:002008-11-15T20:20:00.000-05:00ismellarat-could you please tell me where in the B...ismellarat-could you please tell me where in the Bible it speaks about Jesus requesting people to stone others. Thanks. I will respond to your question after that...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-3285574960522750772008-11-15T12:34:00.000-05:002008-11-15T12:34:00.000-05:00I would ask the atheists to not gloat too much.You...I would ask the atheists to not gloat too much.<BR/><BR/>You can't tell people to NOT stone anyone else, if they<BR/><BR/>1. can get away with it, <BR/>2. aren't bothered by their consciences<BR/><BR/>I guess nobody loves me, now. :(ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19202853282985821982008-11-15T12:26:00.000-05:002008-11-15T12:26:00.000-05:00Heather, I think you know about where I stand: som...Heather, I think you know about where I stand: somewhere in between.<BR/><BR/>I do sympathize with much of what you have to say, and admire your going out of your way to say it here, time and again.<BR/><BR/>But I'm going to ask you a hard, loaded question. I just received an email from someone who passed something along about the horrors of Jesus' crucifixion, which yet again reminded me of Christians' tendency to only see the parts they wish to see.<BR/><BR/>I don't think you and they can escape this:<BR/><BR/>Jesus suffered, but ALSO commanded that stonings be carried out, for adultery, working on the Sabbath, etc. (I'm not wrong on this, so think carefully, before you try to correct me.)<BR/><BR/>So, why don't you watch one<BR/><BR/>http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm#video<BR/><BR/>and imagine Jesus instigating and participating in it. Imagine that he orders you to join in.<BR/><BR/>What would you do? (Thinking about something is the same as doing it, we're taught, don't forget.)<BR/><BR/>I was still shuddering 18 hours after having watched what happened to these women (I think they were women, because they were buried only up to their chests). <BR/><BR/>How did you feel? As the site tells its Muslim audience, watch and do not be disgusted. You MUST agree with this kind of punishment.<BR/><BR/>You're not alone - I couldn't deal with it, either.ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21300869890479728932008-11-15T11:31:00.000-05:002008-11-15T11:31:00.000-05:00Robert_B - Did you notice the last paragraph, and ...Robert_B - Did you notice the last paragraph, and the Christians attempting to help and shelter the children that survive, and that Gary, Director of UK Charity Stepping Stones Nigeria, says: "It's an absolute scandal. Any Christian would look at the situation that is going on here and just be absolutely outraged that they were using the teachings of Jesus Christ to exploit and abuse innocent children."...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276466635642700708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71386031963381813172008-11-14T23:00:00.000-05:002008-11-14T23:00:00.000-05:00[email followups][email followups]ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91915644495490392022008-11-14T22:59:00.000-05:002008-11-14T22:59:00.000-05:00What if the current John Loftus could meet and deb...What if the current John Loftus could meet and debate the old John Loftus?<BR/><BR/>That would make for an interesting and funny series of articles!ismellarathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798650524118603772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-47479963134143514112008-11-14T22:42:00.000-05:002008-11-14T22:42:00.000-05:00I'm mostly delurking to point out that your poll c...I'm mostly delurking to point out that your poll currently adds up to 318% ... best guess is that it's miscalculating the number to divide by, as it undercounts the total number of votes.<BR/><BR/>As for me, I'm very interested in the early history of the church. Mostly it gets glossed over or presented as some idyllic time of wonders.Qalmleahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131154882107531113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7622565408735065622008-11-14T15:58:00.000-05:002008-11-14T15:58:00.000-05:00Warning: Contains disturbing images Killing kids f...Warning: Contains disturbing images <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/478.html" REL="nofollow">Killing kids for Christ</A><BR/><BR/>Ah, the love of Jesus is ever present amongst us.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469718358131331499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33207822630769425772008-11-14T08:33:00.000-05:002008-11-14T08:33:00.000-05:00It seems as though a lot of people want to see a d...It seems as though a lot of people want to see a discussion of the historicity of Jesus. Will <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/10/i-believe-jesus-was-historical-person.html" REL="nofollow">this do</A>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com