tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post6478124054960725124..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Eternally Unforgiven: St. Paul’s View of Women and Its Influence on the Rest of the New TestamentUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger125125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-36149087050363732312008-02-26T10:03:00.000-05:002008-02-26T10:03:00.000-05:00Harry, I think I'll do you a favor and close this ...Harry, I think I'll do you a favor and close this thread. Jason won't quit and you have more valuable things to write about. If you think otherwie let me know and I'll re-open it.<BR/><BR/>Cheers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51001015464002404982008-02-26T09:38:00.000-05:002008-02-26T09:38:00.000-05:00Let see Jason: I stated the Bible proves God is a...Let see Jason: I stated the Bible proves God is a lair. I even quoted chapter and verse. You can not comment since it’s a know fact!<BR/><BR/>I said Jesus is also a lair. Cast any Mountains in to the sea lately, Jason? So either Jason is a lair about his faith in God / Jesus (you don’t even have the smallest faith as in a mustard seed) or Jesus just flat our lied! Which is it?<BR/><BR/>My point about Jesus “taking a dump stands”. It’s not recorded in the Bible, just as not every thing Paul said about women is recorded. Paul’s world was shaped by what came before him…these text.<BR/><BR/>My references to the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha stand as scriptural influences on Paul. If you bothered to check out all my references, you’ll note the serpent is now an angel. Biblical views and theology change. <BR/><BR/>Since Paul was not present in Genesis, all opinions he had are created and based on what he read and my references to the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha (especially in Greek) helped created his views on women. That’s my point…women at often hated in these text.<BR/><BR/>Since you have been so busy here, John latest post cites you: “The question was raised in a somewhat different context, “Did God need to create a physical universe at all?” Jason flippantly and callously responded by quipping, “Who cares? He did.” It still surprises me at the simplistic non-answers we get from some Christians.”<BR/><BR/>I’ve noticed you have yet to make a single reply to John in the above post in 33 comments.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90271351093191110842008-02-26T08:30:00.000-05:002008-02-26T08:30:00.000-05:00Harry,Your latest post only shows how desperate yo...Harry,<BR/><BR/>Your latest post only shows how desperate you are to avoid providing real evidence for your theory. You've quoted obscure references in an attempt to appear intelligent and in the know but then brush off the questions regarding the true relevance of these references. What exactly were you trying to prove by quoting 1 Enoch 69:8? Whereabouts in the Life of Adam and Eve 18:1 do you see anything about Eve being eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal? <BR/><BR/>Do you expect people to blindly follow what you're saying because you're quoting from a book that isn't commonly referenced?<BR/><BR/>Providing these kinds of false references is a sad testimony to how knowledgeable you really are when it comes to defending your claim that women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke to an unclean animal. It's not in the Bible and it's not in any version of Scripture. It exists only in your head.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37829864255287379392008-02-25T22:35:00.000-05:002008-02-25T22:35:00.000-05:00Jason, This is a side track to my original post. ...Jason, <BR/><BR/>This is a side track to my original post. My original post still stands. I do not need your approval any more than I need J.P. Holding's or Tekton Apologetic Ministry. Holding would reject your views too, so too bad!<BR/>I’ll post a new topic and see what you can do. <BR/><BR/>Again, my original post still stands and has ONLY 2 objection: You and Zarove. <BR/><BR/>The points I made on these text were from notes on the Pseudepigrapha. <BR/>I NEVER EVER considered convincing you no more than I could convince Holding.<BR/><BR/>I showed your views on Heaven to a conservative Pastor and he exclaimed: “Who is this nut!”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Daniel: Sorry, but the 66 books are a late canonization of text.<BR/>Please read James H. harlesworth's Introduction to the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. These were the inspirited text of their day.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-46333307193811105532008-02-25T12:19:00.000-05:002008-02-25T12:19:00.000-05:00Harry, don’t take this the wrong way but you’re a ...Harry, don’t take this the wrong way but you’re a pitifully poor excuse of a ‘Biblically educated atheist. Trying to weasel your way out of quoting from the Christian Bible, you can’t even find evidence for your theory in so-called “Scriptural” books.<BR/><BR/><B>1. Where does Scripture say Eve was eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal? </B><BR/><BR/>You said: The Life of Adam and Eve 18:1.<BR/><BR/>Here's the verse: 18:1 <I>"Then the serpent said to me, "As God lives! I am grieved on your account that you are like animals, for I would not have you ignorant. But arise, (come) hither, hearken to me and eat and perceive the value of that tree."</I><BR/><BR/>I don’t see anything here about Eve being eternally unforgiven for talking to a snake, do you?<BR/><BR/><B>2. Where does Scripture say it’s a sin to “talk to an unclean animal”?”</B><BR/><BR/>You said: Apocalypse of Abraham 23:5-9.<BR/><BR/>Here’s the whole chapter – <I>“Now look again in the picture, who it is who seduced Eve and what is the fruit of the tree, [and] thou wilt know what there shall be, and how it shall be to thy seed among the people at the end of the days of the age, and so far as thou canst not understand I will make known to thee, for thou art well-pleasing in my sight, and I will tell thee what is kept in my heart.” And I looked into the picture, and mine eyes ran to the side of the Garden of Eden. And I saw there a man very great in height and fearful in breadth, incomparable in aspect, embracing a woman, who likewise approximated to the aspect and shape of the man. And they were standing under a tree of (the Garden of) Eden, and the fruit of this tree was like the appearance of a bunch of grapes of the vine,10 and behind the tree was standing as it were a serpent in form, having hands and feet like a man’s,1 and wings on its shoulders, six2 on the right side and six on the left,3 and they were holding the grapes of the tree in their hands, and both were eating it whom I had seen embracing. And I said: “Who are these mutually embracing, or who is this who is between them, or what is the fruit which they are eating, O Mighty Eternal One?” And He said: “This is the human world, this is Adam, and this is their desire upon the earth, this is Eve; but he who is between them representeth ungodliness, their beginning (on the way) to perdition, even Azazel.” And I said: “O Eternal, Mighty One! Why hast Thou given to such power to destroy the generation of men in their works upon the earth?” And He said to me: “They who will (to do) evil—and how much I hated (it) in those who do it!—over them I gave him power, and to be beloved of them.” And I answered and said: “O Eternal, Mighty One! Wherefore hast Thou willed to effect that evil should be desired in the hearts of men, since Thou indeed art angered over that which was willed by Thee, at him who is doing what is unprofitable in thy counsel?”</I><BR/><BR/>Harry, where exactly do you see anything about talking to an unclean animal is a sin? In this account, Abraham spoke with an "unclean bird" but he wasn't punished because of it. Why would Eve?<BR/><BR/><B>3. On what logical and intellectual grounds are you claiming Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven when he clearly lays the blame for sin (and death) at the feet of Adam?</B><BR/><BR/>You said: The life of Adam and Eve: Chapter 3; Psalms of Solomon 16:7; Testament of Reubin 6:2; Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs: Chapter 5 and 17:1-3; Gospel of Philip 17: 1-3. It’s ONLY in 4 Ezra 3:20, 7:118 that Adam is finally blamed.<BR/><BR/>How many of these books did Paul write, Harry?<BR/><BR/><B>4. Where are the supporting verses that states God blames every woman ever created for talking to an unclean animal in the Garden?</B><BR/><BR/>You said: I Enoch 69:8<BR/><BR/>Here’s the verse in question: 1 Enoch 69:8 <I>“And the fourth is called Pênêmû; he has taught the sons of men the bitter and the sweet, and taught them all the secrets of their wisdom.”</I><BR/><BR/>You’ll have to explain this one to me, Harry. I don’t see anything about women, blame, or unclean animals. Do you?<BR/><BR/><B>5. Where does Paul state women are eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal?</B><BR/><BR/>You said: Jason, now it’s time for you to do some study. Read the “Acts of Paul”.<BR/><BR/>lol Have you read it, Harry? Thecla (a woman) prays to God to give Trifina’s (a woman) daughter, Falconilla (a woman), eternal life. Adding to this, there’s no mention of women being eternally unforgiven and no mention of an unclean animal in the Garden. <BR/><BR/>Seriously Harry, was this whole thing a joke?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29558199588292845922008-02-25T10:45:00.000-05:002008-02-25T10:45:00.000-05:00"Blogger Harry McCall said... Since the key wo..."Blogger Harry McCall said...<BR/><BR/> Since the key word here is “Scripture”, I have provided “Scripture”."<BR/>I am sorry but when I heard scripture.I assumed it meant Christian scripture that would be considered part of the Christian Canon.So since no Christian scripture was provided from the CHRISTIAN bible to support this assertion. I now realise that the blog did not speak about Christianity at all.This applies only to the practising adherents of the scripture you quoted.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02370820483867762396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42574941207275997692008-02-25T10:13:00.000-05:002008-02-25T10:13:00.000-05:00Since the key word here is “Scripture”, I have pro...Since the key word here is “Scripture”, I have provided “Scripture”.<BR/><BR/><BR/>1. Where does Scripture say Eve was eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal? <BR/><BR/>The Life of Adam and Eve 18:1.<BR/><BR/>2. Where does Scripture say it’s a sin to “talk to an unclean animal”?” <BR/><BR/>Apocalypse of Abraham 23: 5-9.<BR/><BR/>3. On what logical and intellectual grounds are you claiming Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven when he clearly lays the blame for sin (and death) at the feet of Adam?<BR/><BR/>The life of Adam and Eve: Chapter 3; Psalms of Solomon 16:7; Testament of Reubin 6:2; Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs: Chapter 5 and 17:1-3; Gospel of Philip 17: 1-3. It’s ONLY in 4 Ezra 3:20, 7:118 that Adam is finally blamed.<BR/><BR/>4. Where are the supporting verses that states God blames every woman ever created for talking to an unclean animal in the Garden? <BR/><BR/>I Enoch 69:8<BR/><BR/>5. Where does Paul state women are eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal?<BR/><BR/>Jason, now it’s time for you to do some study. Read the “Acts of Paul”.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-38561353496674363112008-02-24T14:50:00.000-05:002008-02-24T14:50:00.000-05:00Genesis 3 “Original Sin”. Face it. You flat out wr...<I>Genesis 3 “Original Sin”. Face it. You flat out wrong! Heretic are easy to beat!</I><BR/><BR/>Genesis 3 doesn't mention anything about Eve sinning because she spoke to an unclean animal. Genesis 3 also doesn't talk about women being eternally unforgiven either. So once again Harry, you're avoiding the question: Where does the Bible say <B>Eve sinned for talking to an unclean animal</B>? Either it does or it doesn't. Which is it?<BR/><BR/><I>Genesis 3.</I><BR/><BR/>Genesis 3 doesn't record that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal. Do you know why Paul fails to mention this "sin" in any of his letters? <BR/><BR/><I>Jason, do you have evidence to support your position that your God is not a LAIR? I'm waiting on proof!</I><BR/><BR/>Harry, the topic is whether or not women are eternally unforgiven. So far, you've been unable to offer any shred of Scriptural evidence that all women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke with an unclean animal. I'm prepared to discuss whether or not God is a liar in another post where that's actually the topic of discussion.<BR/><BR/><B>1. Where does Scripture say Eve was eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal? <BR/><BR/>2. Where does Scripture say it’s a sin to “talk to an unclean animal”?” <BR/><BR/>3. On what logical and intellectual grounds are you claiming Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven when he clearly lays the blame for sin (and death) at the feet of Adam?<BR/><BR/>4. Where are the supporting verses that states God blames every woman ever created for talking to an unclean animal in the Garden? <BR/><BR/>5. Where does Paul state women are eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal?</B><BR/><BR/>If you really do know Scripture as well as you claim, why can't you answer these simple questions?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-57235539747927231782008-02-24T03:50:00.000-05:002008-02-24T03:50:00.000-05:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgWklUj-cd4Your int...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgWklUj-cd4<BR/><BR/>Your interpretation is highly spurious and there are a number of holes.A literal reading of genesis 1 makes it clear that men and women were formed instantaneously and that both sexes were created in God's image.<BR/><BR/>"A. The divine order of creation."<BR/>The Paul was not speaking of the order of creation but the order of instruction.The man was the first to receive instruction from God and it was his responsibility to give it to the woman <BR/>"B. The divine hierarchy."<BR/>This divine heirachchy exists only in your head not christianity<BR/>Galatians 3:28=There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.<BR/>Paul was speaking of the role of women in the church not any kind of hierachy<BR/> "C. The fact that women can be mentally shallow so as to mislead men (if given a place of leadership over men) just as Eve did Adam (verse 14)."<BR/>Paul never implied that women were shallow.A look at the rest of the Pauline epistles show that there were female apostles who worked and ministered with Paul.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02370820483867762396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70589735538996875552008-02-23T21:59:00.000-05:002008-02-23T21:59:00.000-05:00If the Catholic or Orthodox churches could get eit...If the Catholic or Orthodox churches could get either piss or dung, the faithful could use it as a divine relic to be prayed too. So your claim is just hot air!<BR/><BR/>“Who cares? Where does the Bible say Eve sinned for talking to an unclean animal?”<BR/>Genesis 3 “Original Sin”. Face it. You flat out wrong! Heretic are easy to beat!<BR/><BR/>I never will, because I consider you a heretic. If you are not, then exactly what denomination are you a member of. If you can not tell me, then you as a heretic and I as an atheist can meet at my next post.<BR/><BR/>“Your considerations are irrelevant. You're an atheist - no Christian cares what you think of them. Do you have evidence to support your position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal? Do you know why Paul's letters fail to mention this?” <BR/><BR/>Genesis 3.<BR/>Your God is a lair, Jason. Face it! You’ve trusted the first liar in Biblical history for you salvation. And like father, like son. Jesus is a liar too in to no one has cast a Mt. into the sea with the tiniest of faith (Mtt. 17 :20)<BR/><BR/>So you must have been KICKED out of you denomination: “Your considerations are irrelevant. You're a HERETIC- no Christian cares what you think of them.” <BR/><BR/>Jason, do you have evidence to support your position that your God is not a LAIR? <BR/><BR/>I'm waiting on proof!Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-72762760824008062162008-02-23T00:20:00.000-05:002008-02-23T00:20:00.000-05:00If the Catholic or Orthodox churches could get eit...<I>If the Catholic or Orthodox churches could get either piss or dung, the faithful could use it as a divine relic to be prayed too. So your claim is just hot air!</I><BR/><BR/>Who cares? Where does the Bible say Eve sinned for talking to an unclean animal?<BR/><BR/><I>I never will, because I consider you a heretic. If you are not, then exactly what denomination are you a member of. If you can not tell me, then you as a heretic and I as an atheist can meet at my next post.</I><BR/><BR/>Your considerations are irrelevant. You're an atheist - no Christian cares what you think of them. Do you have evidence to support your position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal? Do you know why Paul's letters fail to mention this?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6967242074551267972008-02-22T20:22:00.000-05:002008-02-22T20:22:00.000-05:00“Since Christians don't consider Jesus' bathroom b...“Since Christians don't consider Jesus' bathroom breaks a matter of Biblical importance, this theory of yours isn't worth a second thought.”<BR/><BR/>If the Catholic or Orthodox churches could get either piss or dung, the faithful could use it as a divine relic to be prayed too. So your claim is just hot air!<BR/><BR/>“That's great. Did John state women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke to a snake?<BR/><BR/>Say it Harry and we can be done with this: "The Bible never directly says women are eternally unforgiven. I have no evidence to support my position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal and I have no idea why Paul's letters don't mention it either."<BR/><BR/>I never will, because I consider you a heretic. If you are not, then exactly what denomination are you a member of. If you can not tell me, then you as a heretic and I as an atheist can meet at my next post.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-48973402831183793222008-02-21T21:59:00.000-05:002008-02-21T21:59:00.000-05:00Harry,The whole problem with this revelation of yo...Harry,<BR/><BR/>The whole problem with this revelation of yours is that you had no problem using Scripture to prove your point right up until a few comments ago. If the Bible never directly states Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke to an unclean animal, then just come out and say it. Say it: <I>"There's no Biblical evidence that Eve's sin was for speaking to an unclean animal."</I><BR/><BR/>See, I don't need to defeat your original post. Incredibly, you've done it yourself. You've had no support from anyone here that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal and now you've just compared the lack of evidence for your eternally unforgiven claim to evidence of whether or not Jesus ever went to the bathroom. Since Christians don't consider Jesus' bathroom breaks a matter of Biblical importance, this theory of yours isn't worth a second thought.<BR/><BR/><I>If John sated "celibate men", that's what he said!</I><BR/><BR/>Did John state women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke to a snake?<BR/><BR/><I>Anyway you stated that "Revelation is a book of prophecies and symbols." makes any opinion I make just as valid an interpretation as yours. So, at face value, “celibate men" means just that: Undefiled by women.</I><BR/><BR/>That's great. Did John state women are eternally unforgiven because Eve spoke to a snake?<BR/><BR/>Say it Harry and we can be done with this: <I>"The Bible never directly says women are eternally unforgiven. I have no evidence to support my position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal and I have no idea why Paul's letters don't mention it either."</I>Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18799182858041316702008-02-21T21:09:00.000-05:002008-02-21T21:09:00.000-05:00Jason, my main original post still stands.My commi...Jason, my main original post still stands.<BR/><BR/>My commits about Jesus taking a dump not being recorded in the Gospels is proof that not every thing is stated directly in verses. The more you try and defeat my ORIGINAL post about women being theologically unforgiven by Judaism and Paul, the more you have to prove Jesus did in fact breath and did a number of bodly functions not recorded in the Gospels. Fact is my point was proved by the number of pro-post commits I got.<BR/><BR/>In light of the above, your statement: "Revelation is a book of prophecies and symbols. Are you confident you know both well enough to determine that the 144,000 are actually literal celibate men...?" is an attempt by you to demand I prove my thesis that women are "Eternally Unforgiven" while, at the same time, you want to question what Revelation states as about "celibate men". If John sated "celibate men", that's what he said!<BR/><BR/>As for a Priestly use of a ritual unclean snake talking to Eve, that's not in my original post and since you are not into Hebrew Form Criticism, the point was wasted on you. <BR/><BR/>Anyway you stated that "Revelation is a book of prophecies and symbols." makes any opinion I make just as valid an interpretation as yours. So, at face value, “celibate men" means just that: Undefiled by women.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29224289374921399052008-02-21T14:07:00.000-05:002008-02-21T14:07:00.000-05:00The "basic logic" of your post? Harry, you're unab...The "basic logic" of your post? Harry, you're unable to answer even the simplest of questions - where does Scripture say Eve's sin was talking to unclean animals? So yes, of course I have a problem - your theory can't be substantiated.<BR/><BR/>I've yet to see anyone else here, man or woman, support your claim about Eve's I 'shouldn't have talked to the snake' wrongdoing or, at the very least, provide the Scriptural evidence you seem incapable of finding yourself. You're flying solo on this one, friend.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45167745165708059262008-02-21T12:02:00.000-05:002008-02-21T12:02:00.000-05:00So, let's see now, Jason is the ONLY one than can'...So, let's see now, Jason is the ONLY one than can't seem to understand the basic logic on my post. Jason has a problem. Since you are at DC to challenge any atheist, I would expect exactly this type of reasoning.<BR/><BR/>All the women can, all the men (expect for maybe poor old Zarove who can seem to make progress with anyone at DC).<BR/><BR/>Hey, Jason, check out my post on J.P. Holding and let's go with the verse that Holding tried, but failed to explain. 3rd post from the latest. Lets Go!Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70750906352661978892008-02-21T11:26:00.000-05:002008-02-21T11:26:00.000-05:00Harry, as far as I can tell, I didn't post a topic...Harry, as far as I can tell, I didn't post a topic claiming Jesus ever went to the bathroom. You however posted a claim that Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven. You're obviously unable to answer basic questions to support your theory (from the book you claim to be an expert at) and are now desperately trying to save face. Sorry Harry but this was a miserable attempt at debunking Christianity. <BR/><BR/>Start whatever topic if you'd like. If your opinions are as baseless as this one was, I don't think Christianity has anything to fear.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61473915427569566992008-02-21T07:20:00.000-05:002008-02-21T07:20:00.000-05:00lol Sorry Harry, Jesus' bathroom breaks aren't the...lol Sorry Harry, Jesus' bathroom breaks aren't the theme of your original post and that’s what’s on topic here.<BR/><BR/>Re: My point exactly. You have NO BIBLICAL PROOF of your above claim. Jason, where does it EVER say Jesus ever took a dump? Since Scripture provides no verses that say Jesus ever took a dump, then by your same logic I can not prove women are eternally unforgiven!<BR/><BR/>Off you go now, hiding behind your commentaries and academic tools.<BR/>Re: Jason, I don’t need to. Let’s do this. I’ll start a new post called God vs. the talking serpent… God the first known liar in Biblical history against the talking serpent the truth teller. Since we have verses to prove this (Genesis 2:17 vs. Genesis 3: 3-4) you’ll have the basic tools you need (quoted Biblical verses) and I’ll have my proof. <BR/>What do you say Jason? A topic such as: “Bible Believers Must Face the Fact that Their God is the Father of all Lies”. Or can we continue our debate here and you will not run off?Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-9341435960320760442008-02-20T20:05:00.000-05:002008-02-20T20:05:00.000-05:00lol Sorry Harry, Jesus' bathroom breaks aren't the...lol Sorry Harry, Jesus' bathroom breaks aren't the theme of your original post and that’s what’s on topic here.<BR/><BR/>Off you go now, hiding behind your commentaries and academic tools.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-28709173412671457372008-02-20T19:23:00.000-05:002008-02-20T19:23:00.000-05:00I find it incredibly ironic you're refusing to use...I find it incredibly ironic you're refusing to use the Bible to support your position and instead are now choosing to rely on "major academic tools". Consider: In your opening post on this subject, you quote from Scripture 11 times. Not bad. However, you reference "major academic tools" a grand total of zero times. How ironic indeed.<BR/><BR/>Re: Can you prove from the Bible Jesus ever took a dump? Quote me chapter and verse! So it looks like no one in the Gospels EVER TOOK A DUMP! <BR/>Jason, why have you not discussed this fact as a miracle? I dare you to prove that Jesus or his apostles ever took a dump or even pissed!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Taking into account the cold, hard fact that the Bible never says Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal or that Paul doesn't ever refer to this as the reason why women are eternally unforgiven, you have no choice but to distance yourself from the book you have continuously claimed to know so well. In fact, your theories are so empty, you've resorted to character attacks in an attempt to hide the fact you have no idea what you're talking about - hardly the behaviour expected from a self-proclaimed Biblical expert.<BR/><BR/>Re: Lets see. I proved your God is a liar in Genesis 2. And Jason, has no discussion. Hey Jason, how does it feel knowing the God you try and defend is a liar? Again, Genesis 2 when compared to Genesis 3 is clear… God is the first liar in Biblical history.<BR/><BR/>Refusing to be held accountable for the views you've put forth here, you're now slinking off to hide behind what you consider to be a more Scripturally knowledgeable group of authors and researchers then even Scripture itself, in the process proving you're no more fit to educate Christians about Biblical matters then you are to teach Sunday school.<BR/><BR/>Re: Deal with the Witch of Endor and Saul. Deal with the book of 1 Enoch.<BR/><BR/>Tell me Harry, do any of the commentaries and books you reference actually support your position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal and that all women are eternally unforgiven as a result?<BR/><BR/>Re: “Eve's sin” Stop misquoting me. Your words, not mine. Can you find ANY SUPPORT AT ALL that Jesus or his apostles ever took a dump! WWJD = hole it … since dung is unclean, the Gospels prove that Jesus never took a dump. Again, quote me some verses, Jason.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Harry, you take great pride in rambling off and referencing books with fancy names, trying to convince everyone how knowledgeable you are, but all the while, you say nothing of any significance or importance. You have no answers for my questions because the response to every one of them quite clearly is "I don't know".<BR/><BR/>RE: Sorry Jason, it sounds like your personal library is really small. That’s not my problem. I still do not see why John had a problem with you. I find this a fun topic to make you prove that God was NOT the first liar in Biblical history. Go ahead, Jason, prove that the Bible proves Jesus took a dump. What’s wrong, Jason? Seems that your Bible verses only approach is not helping you now. TOOOO BAAAAD!<BR/><BR/>I'm looking forward to your next topic.<BR/><BR/>Re: It’s been posted for two days.<BR/><BR/>Re: Hey, don’t stop posting here. I’m really getting in to this proof from the Bible discussion. I debated J.P. Holding until he blocked my email, why should I EVER stop with you????Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-32422381628717859392008-02-20T09:36:00.000-05:002008-02-20T09:36:00.000-05:00Harry,I find it incredibly ironic you're refusing ...Harry,<BR/><BR/>I find it incredibly ironic you're refusing to use the Bible to support your position and instead are now choosing to rely on "major academic tools". Consider: In your opening post on this subject, you quote from Scripture 11 times. Not bad. However, you reference "major academic tools" a grand total of zero times. How ironic indeed.<BR/><BR/>Taking into account the cold, hard fact that the Bible never says Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal or that Paul doesn't ever refer to this as the reason why women are eternally unforgiven, you have no choice but to distance yourself from the book you have continuously claimed to know so well. In fact, your theories are so empty, you've resorted to character attacks in an attempt to hide the fact you have no idea what you're talking about - hardly the behaviour expected from a self-proclaimed Biblical expert.<BR/><BR/>Refusing to be held accountable for the views you've put forth here, you're now slinking off to hide behind what you consider to be a more Scripturally knowledgeable group of authors and researchers then even Scripture itself, in the process proving you're no more fit to educate Christians about Biblical matters then you are to teach Sunday school.<BR/><BR/>Tell me Harry, do any of the commentaries and books you reference actually support your position that Eve's sin was for talking to an unclean animal and that all women are eternally unforgiven as a result?<BR/><BR/>Harry, you take great pride in rambling off and referencing books with fancy names, trying to convince everyone how knowledgeable you are, but all the while, you say nothing of any significance or importance. You have no answers for my questions because the response to every one of them quite clearly is <B>"I don't know".</B><BR/><BR/>I'm looking forward to your next topic.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37336650025151375272008-02-19T19:09:00.000-05:002008-02-19T19:09:00.000-05:00Jason, Again, I see no use in a scholastic dialog...Jason, Again, I see no use in a scholastic dialogue with you unless you reference your statements to a major academic tool or tools such as the Anchor Bible Dictionary, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Commentary, Fortress’ Hermeneia series, The International Critical Commentary, Encyclopedia of the Dead Sea Scrolls, any publication by academic publisher: E.J. Brill, The Society of Biblical Literature, or any major academic journals such as Revue de Qumran, or either of Brill’s Vetus Testamentum, Novum Testamentum or any books published by Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or the University of Chicago presses.<BR/><BR/>Until then, you are asking me to educate your unwilling mind on the past 150 years of academic research. I frankly don’t have the time nor do I have to justify to you well know positions of Biblical studies for your approval.<BR/><BR/>When you finally bring an academic position to the comment section based on more than religious opinions, I’ll be glad to consider it.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21538788452860851652008-02-19T16:02:00.000-05:002008-02-19T16:02:00.000-05:00Harry,My heretical views aren't the topic. Your 'E...Harry,<BR/><BR/>My heretical views aren't the topic. Your 'Eternally Unforgiven' is. <BR/><BR/>These are basic questions that deal with the fundamental issue of your topic. If you can't answer or refuse to answer them, I'll have no choice but to assume your whole 'eternally unforgiven' theory is nothing more then uninformative baseless banter.<BR/><BR/>You've spent a lot of time using the Bible to support your other views, I don't see why these would be causing you problems.<BR/><BR/><B>1. Where does Scripture say Eve was eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal? <BR/><BR/>2. Where does Scripture say it’s a sin to “talk to an unclean animal”?” <BR/><BR/>3. On what logical and intellectual grounds are you claiming Paul thinks women are eternally unforgiven when he clearly lays the blame for sin (and death) at the feet of Adam?<BR/><BR/>4. Where are the supporting verses that state God blames every woman ever created for talking to an unclean animal in the Garden? <BR/><BR/>5. Where does Paul state women are eternally unforgiven for talking to an unclean animal?</B>Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-36618048946087290542008-02-19T15:00:00.000-05:002008-02-19T15:00:00.000-05:00Jason, it's little wonder heretics were either ban...Jason, it's little wonder heretics were either banned from orthodox chruches or killed.<BR/><BR/>Your heretical views are not my problem.<BR/><BR/>Main stream issues and objections to your views are discussed in the books and by the scholars I mentioned. <BR/><BR/>My post stands as is. End of discussion here!Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-22209204892719747542008-02-19T14:01:00.000-05:002008-02-19T14:01:00.000-05:00Stu,Then we agree to disagree.Stu,<BR/><BR/>Then we agree to disagree.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.com