tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post6476080984854160950..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: The Outsider Test in Action: "Studying Islam Has Made Me An Atheist" by Douglas MurrayUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-36701559331874105982009-04-01T23:51:00.000-04:002009-04-01T23:51:00.000-04:00gleaner63,"In a court of law, both sides use the s...gleaner63,<BR/><BR/>"In a court of law, both sides use the same "evidence and logic" in an attempt to prove, or disprove their respective positions."<BR/><BR/>Granted. In this case, both sides using the same logic and the same evidence fail to make their case. Or, if one is true, they are both true. Or more appropriately, if one is true, an infinite number of them are true. If I were sitting on a jury, and both of the party's positions were, "My explanation is as possible as any other number of other unprovable explanations." Gotta say, I wouldn't find that compelling. <BR/><BR/>Case dismissed.M. Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056410184615941086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10220229796809050102009-03-31T12:41:00.000-04:002009-03-31T12:41:00.000-04:00Park,I really want to know what makes Muslims so d...Park,<BR/><BR/><I>I really want to know what makes Muslims so devoted to their religion... and how they justify their belief as the truth.</I><BR/><BR/>The arguments for Islam, including ones I've read by Muslim apologists, seem to be the same ones made for Christianity:<BR/><BR/>1) It is internally coherent and provides a complete worldview that explains all things in the universe<BR/><BR/>2) The original Qur'an was compiled within the lifetime of the original followers of the Prophet, and this copy was later copied many times over, meaning that the current Qur'ans we have could not have been corrupted at any time<BR/><BR/>3) There are verses in the Qur'an that supposedly allude to scientific claims that were not known for another thousand years<BR/><BR/>4) Islam has over a billion followers in the world, and surely God would not let the religion get that big if it were not true (I believe this is one of McDowell's arguments for Christianity)<BR/><BR/>5) It is rooted in objective, historical places, peoples and events (the cities of Madinah and Makkah, the battle of Badr, etc)<BR/><BR/>6) It has changed the lives of millions upon millions upon millions of people for almost 1,500 years<BR/><BR/>Of course these are the same sorts of arguments that Christianity uses, and of course they are similarly inconclusive.<BR/><BR/>The roots of it are a combination of things. One main reason is the traditional arguments for God that all theists use, like the Design inference, First Cause, etc. Another is the idea that Muhammad couldn't have made it all up, since he was (in their eyes) just a simple man who couldn't even write, who therefore could not have written or spoken such "perfect" and "divine" verses.<BR/><BR/>And also, of course, faith. I'm sure there are Muslims who also stay devoted because of their fear of the Day of Judgment and Hell, or because of family.Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29190817707754600692009-03-31T12:37:00.000-04:002009-03-31T12:37:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-54875381487699587752009-03-30T15:28:00.000-04:002009-03-30T15:28:00.000-04:00J.Park asked, "Isn't there any good book about "Ch...J.Park asked, <BR/><BR/>"Isn't there any good book about "Christianity vs. Islam" that I could read? I really want to know what makes Muslims so devoted to their religion... and how they justify their belief as the truth."<BR/><BR/>May I suggest reading Karen Armstrong's, "The History of God: The 4000 year quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam". It is an excellent history of Islam. But, just as important as her understanding of the origins and practice of Islam is her placing it in the context of it's relationship to Christianity and Judaism. I have read several things on Islam, but I think this is the best.Joe Staubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354614785249175583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-16846148851032219282009-03-30T08:51:00.000-04:002009-03-30T08:51:00.000-04:00Greetings MammalYou are not helping the stereotype...Greetings Mammal<BR/><BR/>You are not helping the stereotypes against atheists being to smart for their own good.<BR/><BR/>When I was 10 years old I was trying to swap my moms tired old graham crackers she packed in my lunch for Billy Wieckerts Twinkies. Then try to race home after school to watch Speed Racer<BR/>before jimmy Novak kicked my ass. I guess I had other things to worry about besides rethinking my stance on the global impact of the institutions of religion. But I did get a blue ribbon that year for my science fair volcano.<BR/><BR/>Peace out, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-15170844122315949872009-03-30T03:51:00.000-04:002009-03-30T03:51:00.000-04:00J.Park, There was a book published in the mid-e...J.Park,<BR/><BR/> There was a book published in the mid-eighties by Josh McDowell that was pretty much a transcript of a debate between himslef and a Muslim apologist in South Africa. I don't remember the title, but in it you can at least find reasons why Muslims reject Christianity.<BR/><BR/>M. Tully:<BR/><BR/>"To deny it, they would have to deny the very evidence and logic they have used to attempt refute other faiths in favor of their own."<BR/><BR/>In a court of law, both sides use the same "evidence and logic" in an attempt to prove, or disprove their respective positions. That wouldn't mean, however, both sides are invalid. It's simply who has the best case.gleaner63https://www.blogger.com/profile/16176301366830968727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42440916682696107472009-03-30T00:01:00.000-04:002009-03-30T00:01:00.000-04:00J Park,Islam uses the same arguments that Christia...J Park,<BR/><BR/>Islam uses the same arguments that Christianity uses. It's why John's Outsider Test gets such good reviews from Christian apologists. To deny it, they would have to deny the very evidence and logic they have used to attempt refute other faiths in favor of their own.M. Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056410184615941086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-27646000009530090122009-03-29T23:54:00.000-04:002009-03-29T23:54:00.000-04:00SM,"Islam did the same thing to me around 1979-80 ...SM,<BR/><BR/>"Islam did the same thing to me around 1979-80 during the Iran hostage crises."<BR/><BR/>For me it was the Sumerians, Greeks and Romans. I remember thinking, how could these peoples, so advanced for their times, still be so wrong in their theology? So I investigated. And the rest as they say is history.M. Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056410184615941086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-32972844703185785592009-03-29T22:41:00.000-04:002009-03-29T22:41:00.000-04:00Isn't there any good book about "Christianity vs. ...Isn't there any good book about "Christianity vs. Islam" that I could read? I really want to know what makes Muslims so devoted to their religion... and how they justify their belief as the truth.J.Parkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17324275515071917945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10401402783183855102009-03-29T08:53:00.000-04:002009-03-29T08:53:00.000-04:00Islam did the same thing to me around 1979-80 duri...Islam did the same thing to me around 1979-80 during the Iran hostage crises. I was 10 years old. It was my first exposure to another faith. It was then that I started rethinking all the Sunday School lessons and eventually became aware that all religious intitutions across the globe were simply the product of man.socraticmammalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00725306352610461177noreply@blogger.com