tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post5714008643413009685..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: My Comments at The SBL On Bill Maher's Movie ReligulousUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52171724208236111252009-11-30T05:42:19.287-05:002009-11-30T05:42:19.287-05:00There is no such thing as a non-harmful religion. ...There is no such thing as a non-harmful religion. Anything that causes people to believe so strongly in and make decisions based on a system of falshoods causes harm in innumerable tiny ways. That people believe that we have souls damages how they live in the here and now, that people believe in answered prayer wastes time and falsely attributes the work of nature and other people to a non-existent god. Living in a world where the majority of people believe such falsehoods constrains freedom of expression and thought and exchange of ideas. Religion, all religion, is a defective way of thinking and perceiving the world and other people and causes countless continual repeated constant harm. Think of how it limits free scientific thought as but one example. Think of how it effects thought about law and government. Think of the money and time wasted. The harm may seem tiny and merely inconvenient, but its very pervasiveness is damaging.goprairiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00532311590000341237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30827523174120493892009-11-30T03:47:57.606-05:002009-11-30T03:47:57.606-05:00Russ, I've finally found some time to respond....Russ, I've finally found some time to respond. Let me put it to you this way. I like to watch football and I'm a fan of the Colts. How does it change any football player in the NFL if he is a believer? He still practices hard, memorizes his pattens, follows the coach and quarterback's instructions. You see, it does not matter if a football player is a believer. How does religion poison football?<br /><br />All I must do is show one instance of where religion does not poison something to render Hitchen's extreme rhetoric null and void.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39944388209450858382009-11-29T07:56:49.403-05:002009-11-29T07:56:49.403-05:00I particularly liked this movie.
At the same ti...I particularly liked this movie. <br /><br />At the same time, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. <br /><br />There are some elements of the Christian tradition worth retaining (even if their foundation is based on questionable truths). It's good to encourage charity and the like. Although religion is not always <i>necessary</i> for these sentiments, they can (for some) fuel such endeavors in a way that other belief systems might not.<br /><br />If anything, I hope that such films encourage at least a bit of humility when attempting to follow what one thinks is true about the universe: there should be no room for the sort of brazen nonsense about what "God's will" is, especially when God's will is some political or military endeavor.John N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6005280205618304102009-11-26T03:20:04.382-05:002009-11-26T03:20:04.382-05:00I loved Religulous, and I agree with just about al...I loved Religulous, and I agree with just about all of it. It was nice to watch something about religion that made me laugh.AngryATHEISThttp://angryatheist.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29643531020627900942009-11-25T15:07:28.786-05:002009-11-25T15:07:28.786-05:00John, that was a great write-up. Keep up the good...John, that was a great write-up. Keep up the good work!Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7384223428842264592009-11-25T13:19:20.153-05:002009-11-25T13:19:20.153-05:00It was written: "Religulous is a fascinating ...It was written: "Religulous is a fascinating documentary comedy about the perils of religion in a world that has weapons of mass destruction"<br /><br />But think about this for a minute - what is the alternative? Total domination and oppressive police states??? Religulous is a fascinating documentary comedy about the perils of religion in a world that has weapons of mass destruction PPL are allowed to develop a preference. Jesus is into progressive and creative construction of which we are invited to take part in at various levels of ability - He is not passive, homogenous, boring or abusive. By His grace, He allows for enmity against Him to exist. <br /><br />Then, it was written: "So it’s no different with the New Atheism. Biblical scholars like professor Avalos are taking up their cause by calling for an end to Biblical studies as we know them."<br /><br />I couldn't agree more - the Bible was intended to be a source of inspiration and consolation, not God Himself. For some, it has become God - an idol. If one is not born of God's spirit(which, BTW, is instructed in the Bible), they cannot fathom God's nature by reading it solely as a work of literature. God doesn't enable ppl to bypass Him and be successful at claiming friendship with Him (that's in the Bible too!). :-)Beautiful Feethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14868646492757287704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21875419947292253852009-11-25T12:51:31.156-05:002009-11-25T12:51:31.156-05:00I'm very much moving towards the belief that w...I'm very much moving towards the belief that we NEED non-religious advocates that are articulate and intelligent to push the debate. <br /><br />You guys are spot on about how liberals (of the religious sort) should be held accountable along with the fundamentalists. I used to say that I wanted to be respectful of religious folk, after I left Christianity. I'm rethinking that. It's time that this nonsense stopped leading us towards some serious death and disaster. <br /><br />Almost every time I speak with a non-fundamentalist Christian, I am asked not to make fun of the extremists and to have respect for what they believe. Well, bullshit....what else do we hang on to from 2 or 3 thousand years ago, the way we cling to religion? People are finding new ways to express their faith (flying planes into buildings) and are searching for ways to kill even more in the name of their god. It's time for the nonsense to stop. Extremists are not crazy cowards. They are people of faith who are willing to give their lives up for god. That should scare the hell out of people more than it does. Dismissing them as nuts is asking for trouble. FREDDYFreddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02098690698543400039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-13706121315475223812009-11-25T12:10:10.199-05:002009-11-25T12:10:10.199-05:00Mystical Seeker,
I don't understand exactly w...Mystical Seeker,<br /><br />I don't understand exactly what you're trying to get at.<br /><br />For one thing I don't see how what you quoted suggests an all-or-nothing approach. For another it seems to me that you're contending that an all-or-nothing approach is always unwarranted or undesirable. If that is indeed your contention, then I feel compelled to point you in the direction of something that forces an all-or-nothing approach on everyone: reality.<br /><br />All-or-nothing is of course forced on us by the natural world - fire, gravity, and Siberian tigers, for instance. It is at your peril that you stray too far from complete respect for things like these. There really are things in this world concerning which having too open a mind can cost lives, including yours or your children's.<br /><br />All-or-nothing is also forced on us by the vast amount of non-trivial knowledge and understanding that mankind has accumulated over the past few millenia, especially the most recent six centuries.<br /><br />For example, the earth is not the center of the universe as once thought. If that's all-or-nothing, then so be it, but it's irrefutable in light of the evidence. Sure it can be denied and rejected from religiously motivated ignorance, but that denial cannot be supported with evidence. It's all-or-nothing and it's supported by the evidence.<br /><br />The same can be said of atomic theory, evolutionary theory, germ theory of disease. They're all-or-nothing and, they're supported by the evidence.<br /><br />The all-or-nothing-ness of "two plus two equals four" isn't really all that bad, is it?<br /><br />If you're trying to communicate the undesirability of clinging to an idea in the face of evidence to the contrary, then you will find me in full agreement. But, then, your comment is unrelated to John who is ready, willing, able and experienced at changing his mind in the face of compelling evidence.<br /><br />We are all at risk from religious fundamentalism. The threat it poses stems largely from its acceptance of tradition, revelation and authority as valid ways of knowing about the world. Clearly, those three give a basis for learning about the social environment one dwells in but, they do not provide any sort of general knowledge or understanding of the world at large. Their attempts to apply their social norms beyond their own sphere leads to political, social and intellectual conflicts, some fraction of which turn violent.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1094971302375971432009-11-25T09:51:55.187-05:002009-11-25T09:51:55.187-05:00Welcome Back!Welcome Back!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-22059177145613090802009-11-25T09:20:14.099-05:002009-11-25T09:20:14.099-05:00The problem with this movie was when he had all th...The problem with this movie was when he had all things that christianity supposedly borrowed from other ancient religions. It is funny that he didn't cite or talk to any scholars to back these up. Maybe because there aren't any. I am disapponted with Maher. People that don't know a lot about religion will watch this and think that its common knowledge that Christianity stole all of its beliefs from other religions. True there are some similarities but most of those supposed ones that used are just false.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825630853478631690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39808281216195656872009-11-24T17:18:21.715-05:002009-11-24T17:18:21.715-05:00"If someone no longer accepts the historical ..."If someone no longer accepts the historical underpinnings of her faith she should look for a different one, or none at all. It’s the intellectually honest thing to do. To me, liberalism is like a pretend game much like M. Night Shyamalan’s movie, The Village. In my opinion they should stop pretending."<br /><br />And there you have it--that old all-or-nothing argument that fundamentalists love to spout, in a nutshell, and spoken like a true ex-evangelical. The reality is that a fundamentalist who simply changes teams without changing the simplistic underlying assumptions of his former fundamentalist faith is still, by any measure, a fundamentalist by another name. It is amazing how many ex-fundamentalist congratulate themselves for having outgrown their former simplistic faith yet are unable to shed the simplistic assumptions that underlie that former faith.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52217444504706263882009-11-24T12:19:42.472-05:002009-11-24T12:19:42.472-05:00John said: "And who really cares if religion ...John said: "And who really cares if religion doesn't poison everything as Hitchens’ extreme rhetoric proclaims?"<br /><br />Personally, I don't think the notion that "religion poisons everything" is extreme rhetoric.<br /><br />I think it is an intellectual and psychological poisoning to require of anyone that they believe things for which there exists no evidence. Such a demand can be made only because religion seizes on the human susceptibility to social control. Under religious constraints the mind is not free; the mind is bound; the mind is enslaved. All religions are poisoning in this sense.<br /><br />Aside from this general sense of poisoning the mind, for every specific human concern a religion can be found that corrupts that concern to the point that it becomes poisoned. Love, kindness, compassion, freedom, generosity, sex, personal thoughts, reproduction, music, entertainment, democracy, learning, child care, science, humanitarian aid, peace, diet, trust, indeed every human value, every human concern, in all their myriad forms, are corrupted and perverted by some religion to the point of its being poisoned. Many religions insist that everyone must take their beloved poisons. The poison of rejecting medical care kills hundreds of children of Christian Science parents each year. The poison of Roman Catholic opposition to condom use in Africa has killed so many people that whole societies have been destroyed.<br /><br />Poison means to exert a pernicious, baneful influence and, in that sense, the poisoning of everything by religion is commonplace observation.<br /><br />I truly don't think the notion that "religion poisons everything" is extreme rhetoric.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18051613000388939182009-11-24T08:07:15.051-05:002009-11-24T08:07:15.051-05:00John ..."How much harm is laughter by compari...John ..."How much harm is laughter by comparison to bombs? "<br /><br />Theres not that much choice anyway is there,folks either try seeing the funny side as much as possible and laugh about it if they can.<br /><br />Or else its harmful to everyone and tends to even drive some folks to insanity or tears.<br /><br />I think laughter might be like a survival mode,its the hope that folks of faith will quickly wake up real soon and see how real stoopid ! and dangerious these faiths have really been.Gandolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624178234332819107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-64916032005549471702009-11-24T05:25:56.324-05:002009-11-24T05:25:56.324-05:00John,
Good job. I think you are right to point ou...John,<br /><br />Good job. I think you are right to point out to the liberals their inconsistencies. In some ways, they are just as ridiculous as the evangelicals. <br /><br />It was good to meet you and your wife in New Orleans and I look forward to working together with you in this new group within SBL.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-63350249653570729552009-11-24T05:11:09.390-05:002009-11-24T05:11:09.390-05:00Bronxboy,
I believe in extending love to others. ...Bronxboy,<br /><br />I believe in extending love to others. I see love as being the overflow of joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others. The overflow is experienced conciously as the persuit of my joy in the joy of another. I double my delight in God as I expand it in the lives of others.<br /><br />There is no way to exclude self- intrest from love, for self- intrest is not the same as selfishness. Selfishness seeks its own private happiness at the expennse of others. Love seeks its happiness in the happiness of the beloved. It will even suffer and die for the beloved in order that its joy might be full in the life and purity of the beloved. This is what Jesus did. For it was by the joy that was set before Him that He endured the cross.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80867511069627434592009-11-24T04:51:58.478-05:002009-11-24T04:51:58.478-05:00And Here was my response to Bronxboy:
In the end...And Here was my response to Bronxboy:<br /><br /><br />In the end God's sovereign will will be done and He will accomplish His purpose. I don't try to figure that out though. I'm not God. I just try and go by His revealed will which is loving my neighbor as myself and loving God above all else. If that is an area of concern for you then that's great. I don't believe in killing each other over religion.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66546155578017970042009-11-24T00:16:27.154-05:002009-11-24T00:16:27.154-05:00I've been involved in an ongoing debate lastin...I've been involved in an ongoing debate lasting two days with a gentleman here on Debunking Christianity. I could be wrong, but I don't believe he's a fundamentalist. Nevertheless, after two days of back and forth we finally reached an impasse, and he chose to disengage with these words:<br /><br />I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree then. Here's something else I believe the bible teaches:<br /><br />And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God. (Romans 8:28)<br /><br />When my future is in the hands of an all-wise, all-powerful, all- knowing God who promises to work all things together for my good I am free to take any risk that love demands-no matter the cost. No matter what happens I can rest content that God will work it out for my good. To live is Christ and to die is gain. <br /><br /><br />Such a reply reeks of a disturbing self-centeredness. Here is my reply:<br /><br />We've clearly reached an impasse and are now simply talking past each other. But I cannot end this discussion without mentioning that it is becoming increasingly clear that the rapidly intensifying hostilities between competing religions is possibly the biggest threat to the continued existence of mankind on this planet. But I doubt that in your cosmological scheme of things this is of any great importance. Your God's will will be done no matter what.<br /><br />Unless liberal believers speak out they are enabling fundamentalists of all stripes who are literally salivating over the prospect of final conflagration.Bronxboy47https://www.blogger.com/profile/12820086206830534185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-88819979179691693732009-11-23T23:04:24.641-05:002009-11-23T23:04:24.641-05:00A thought-provoking defense. I addressed a few agr...A thought-provoking defense. I addressed a few agreements and disagreements <a href="http://rattiganwrites.blogspot.com/2009/11/loftus-defends-bill-mahers-religulous.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Dave Rattiganhttp://www.rattiganwrites.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-13094951769520616702009-11-23T15:28:38.451-05:002009-11-23T15:28:38.451-05:00Excellent, well thought out argument. Kudos!Excellent, well thought out argument. Kudos!Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693944542336729866noreply@blogger.com