tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post5396208570179887321..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: The 100% ChallengeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-64100728208371050142010-02-28T18:45:05.092-05:002010-02-28T18:45:05.092-05:00After reading 3 challenges of a former pastor(?), ...After reading 3 challenges of a former pastor(?), we open the old NAB Bible, reprinted in 1991, to look the verses in question, we are a little shocked when the Biblical translators knew these issues a long time and they had the sound commentaries. The poster's argument was based on the Rabbi writings and he doubted Bible. His issues related to the Hebrew terms only: Nazareth, virgin or young woman, and children killing in Bethlehem.<br /><br />For “Nazareth”, it was natural when the mysterious prophesy did not express the specific name. But we can guess or know it after it happened. The term “Nazareth” did not exist in the OT because this village did not exist at the time of the prophets, or it was unknown to the common people, or God wanted to keep it in secret to protect the people in Nazareth from being killed or destroyed by the evil rulers. Why did St Mathew confirm it was prophesied by the prophets? Interestingly, Some similar Hebrew terms with some symbols to Messiah were found in the OT, for example, Isa 11:1 where the Davidic king of the future is called “nazer” (“bud or descent”) and Judges 13:5,7 where Samson the future deliverer of Israel from the Philistines, is called one who shall be ”nazarite” [“consecrated”] to God.<br /><br />As for virgin or young woman, the poster argued that “almah” (means young woman) used in Isaiah could NOT be “bethulah” (means virgin) in Matthew. The poster seemed to be obsessed with the modern English language that the term “woman” implies “not virgin any more”. If we make a little effort for research of truth, we will see the poster was in error. Here’s what the poster did not know at all:<br /><br />Firstly, Genesis used both terms “bethulah” (virgin) in Gen 24:16 and “almah” (young woman) in Gen 24:43 for the same female “Rebekah” in the same chapter 24. More interestingly, Joel 1:8 presents the word “betulah” in a context which does not convey the usual meaning of virginity: "Mourn like a virgin (betulah) in sackcloth, grieving for the husband of her youth.". <br /><br />Secondly, the Lord and Adam in Genesis called Eva was a “WOMAN” when God created her. Note that the woman Eva was still virgin 100% without any idea about sex before committing the sin. <br /><br />Thirdly, in the 3rd century B.C. when a panel of 70 Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they themselves used the specific Greek word for VIRGIN "parthenos" not the more generic Greek word for "young woman." The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a "virgin birth," translated "ALMAH" in Isaiah 7:14 as "VIRGIN" not "young woman." <br /><br />Matthew emphasized that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and then the term “virgin” is accurate.<br /><br />As for children killing at Bethlehem, be wise, the evil rulers usually wanted to hide his secret evil actions. Matthew 2:18 probably chose a prophesy from Jeremiah. Rachel was the wife of Jacob, who was also called Israel. Rachel was considered as the mother of Israel’s people. Prophet Jeremiah portrayed that she was sitting by her grave near Bethlehem (Genesis 35:19, 48:7). She was weeping for her children (Israel’s people) as their enemies took them away to "Babylon” (Jeremiah 31:15). Now Rachel was weeping for the children in Bethlehem whom Herod had killed.<br /><br />Hope the Lord Jesus still blesses the poster.vu_blog_01https://www.blogger.com/profile/02211630433773784431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34056813239123923602009-07-29T17:10:04.877-04:002009-07-29T17:10:04.877-04:00This is a very interesting blog, one that I think ...This is a very interesting blog, one that I think I will enjoy reading for a long time. Thank you for your work.<br /><br />That said, I want to make it clear I mean no disrespect to persons of any religion. But I think many of us are disturbed at how some fundamentalist Christians are "running with the ball" in our country today. It's gotten so bad you can't even have a reasonable scientific discussion about something like...say, how old the earth might be. For example, I'm pretty sure it's more than 6,000 years.<br /><br />I notice most of the challenge to religious authority is "protestant" in spirit -- that is, when people can read ancient texts themselves, without interference from Church hierarchy, people can get closer to the truth, or at least the intent of the original writer(s).<br /><br />As a lapsed Catholic, possibly a full-blown agnostic, I note the age of spiritual texts and that human beings were entrusted with their writing, copying, editing, etc. As a writer, I know all too well the temptations of editors to cut out the good stuff for clarity. Writers also like to show off and be clever, engage in word games, impress old girl friends, exact revenge on landlords and such.<br /><br />Would it be too trite to suggest that a massive project to gather every known document in the Judeo-Christian heritage, translate these documents with contemporary tools, even leaving in vagaries and then publish the results on-line? <br /><br />I think this would be fascinating exercise for believers and wise guys alike. <br /><br />You know why?<br /><br />Because sometimes I believe some of these writings suffer from that old game of "telephone" we used to play in grade school. You know that one, right? You tell a kid in the first seat of the first row a word or a phrase. And all each kid has to do is repeat it on down the rows to the last seat in the last row, "verbatim." More often or not we discovered the word or meaning changed completely.<br /><br />Just sayin'.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00771208072183069556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66117484030363117102008-01-20T16:42:00.000-05:002008-01-20T16:42:00.000-05:00Dan,There is a difference between there, their and...Dan,<BR/><BR/>There is a difference between there, their and they're as well as you're and your. Please learn them or forever come off as a doofus. <BR/><BR/>In regards to the current topic at hand, I just skipped my Bible study as own faith seems tested every time I do any research on things. I'm sure all can agree that life seems far more purposeful w/ a belief in a creator, and for me anger and a bit of emptyness seems to set in when I resolve to atheism. Yet there are so many questions that it is nothing less than a great challenge to my only slightly above average intellect to concede or...believe. Don't know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-86495393118477623732007-09-25T13:37:00.000-04:002007-09-25T13:37:00.000-04:00Don't get me wrong, I've tried to like Dan and hav...Don't get me wrong, I've tried to like Dan and have even exchanged a good 15-20 emails back and forth to discuss these side issues and get try to build a rapport with him. I get continually talked down to as though I were some sort of raving, slobbering , demon-possessed infidel who has nothing worthwhile to say. IMHO, this attitude does not do justice to the very important issues we're discussing in this forum and I will no longer humor it.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-38543728230523236582007-09-25T13:00:00.000-04:002007-09-25T13:00:00.000-04:00Dan, thanks for telling a bit about your story - I...Dan, thanks for telling a bit about your story - I was edified by reading it.Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-24342592876613452172007-09-25T12:04:00.000-04:002007-09-25T12:04:00.000-04:00Yes, and I could kick myself for it. It's been an...Yes, and I could kick myself for it. It's been an unusually busy week with the start of school (I work at a large university), so I have been delayed in my follow-up article. But, rest assured, I will be measured in my response (or not respond at all) to those who (like Dan) would seek to derail the discussion at hand--and I encourage others here to do so, as well.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19837204855962126322007-09-25T10:47:00.000-04:002007-09-25T10:47:00.000-04:00You have let Dan derail what was starting to be an...You have let Dan derail what was starting to be an interesting discussion.Blue Devil Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045468316613818510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-23318962892103320982007-09-24T18:35:00.000-04:002007-09-24T18:35:00.000-04:00Dan, I don't think you have the faintest idea of w...Dan, I don't think you have the faintest idea of what logic is. You are far more stubborn in your thinking than anyone in this forum and frankly, you aren't contributing substantively to this discussion about Bible prophecy (!!!) You make broad, sweeping statements and express them with some measure of arrogance, but don't offer corresponding evidence to back them up. I don't think anyone takes you seriously because of it. If you really want to win people over, you won't manage with your current approach.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-28534169807354087892007-09-24T18:08:00.000-04:002007-09-24T18:08:00.000-04:00Prup (aka Jim Benton) but you do a good job of 'pu...Prup (aka Jim Benton) <B>but you do a good job of 'pushing my buttons.'</B><BR/><BR/>How does that saying go..oh yea: "Truth hurts"<BR/><BR/>I understand your frustration with me because I am speaking truth.<BR/><BR/><B>The supposed 'evil Satanists' you describe don't exist.</B><BR/><BR/>Man, why are you defending them so much? The worst thing that can happen to them is to be exposed. If you don't think secret societies exist you are just plain delusional. Maybe they don't in your fantasy world but they do exist because I have seen it with my own eyes. I experienced it for months and I am hear to tell you that they do exist and at least they believe what the believe because they at least live that life. I felt the darkness, no one can tell me any different. The problem that I had was I thought that I could save her from all that, which was just my naivete at the time.<BR/><BR/>Look, I have read most all of the gnostic and apocryphal writings also. I must say that I agree they should not be part of today's Bible because of how they differ a great deal from the true Word of The Bible. To say that you knew more then the entire body of Biblical scholars back then that collected the books into the current Canon and what THe Bible is today as to what was authentic or not is delusional also. Do you really believe that you have been lead by the Spirit of truth more so then them? So you really think that God cannot preserve His Word? Your Logic is suspect to say the least.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-44785630619259020382007-09-23T19:31:00.000-04:002007-09-23T19:31:00.000-04:00Dan: Stop spreading myths. The supposed 'evil Sa...Dan: Stop spreading myths. The supposed 'evil Satanists' you describe don't exist.<BR/><BR/>(And, of course, Satan doesn't either, any more than God does, but that's a whole different argument.)<BR/><BR/>And if you are going to quote Revelations at us, kindly do some reading to see that this, like Daniel and several other books like it that no one attempted to put in the canon, were not 'prophecies,' but a particular -- and very formulaic -- type of commentary on the current events that the writer was viewing. Check out Enslin's THE LITERATURE OF THE CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT, Chapter 37, "Apocalyptic Literature" to see what this literature was and how it was used.<BR/><BR/>Not that you will, and I have to train myself not to respond to your nonsense and lies, but you do a good job of 'pushing my buttons.'Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-77246886010981501072007-09-23T19:19:00.000-04:002007-09-23T19:19:00.000-04:00Of course, Dan, you still haven't commented once o...Of course, Dan, you still haven't commented once on the problems with Messianic prophecies of Scripture. Why are you avoiding the issue?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52671270802369245252007-09-23T18:02:00.000-04:002007-09-23T18:02:00.000-04:00Joseph "To prove your thesis, you would have to sh...Joseph <B>"To prove your thesis, you would have to show that the vast majority of church of Christ members also murder their husband and kids."</B><BR/><BR/>Not every religious person is saved and vice versa. There are many examples of that church having bad fruit. I will give you two more, ready? You and I. <BR/><BR/>I was a false convert by that church until years later, after falling away from them, only to find out I would have gone to hell because of their teachings, and YOU because you grew up in a home of ministers from that Church and you are now an Atheist who now publicly declares war against God. How many more do you need.<BR/><BR/>There are many writings about the false doctrine of The Church of Christ, just Google it and read some. I have first hand knowledge ( "Hot Iron of experience") of the darkness in those churches in many states abroad and came to my own conclusion and it wasn't until later that I found many others that experienced the same as I have. Are YOU good fruit from that church Joseph?<BR/><BR/>So Prup (aka Jim Benton) you define satanism as <B>"Silly, yes, evil, no"</B> Ummm OK then remember the greatest trick for satan is to get others to believe he doesn't exist. There is another group that dedicate their entire lives to satan and do whatever is against God. They are often involved in drug dealing, gun running, prostitution, pornography they molest their own children and they feel powerful if they help destroy souls. To me that is the definition of evil and yes it is very underground and secret because who want attention when you are involved in those things. They do exist and I agree they are silly AND evil. I feel they use the evil part to intimidate and keep kids scared and silent while they exploit them in all of the above situations. They are a sick group for sure. <BR/><BR/>Shygetz <B>"So, if the fruit of Christianity are evil, then Christianity must not be of God."</B> Close the fruit of denominations are evil in my opinion (Jeremiah 32:38-40) and is not of God. Look at <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelations%202-3&version=9" REL="nofollow">Revelation 2-3</A> and how many assemblies Jesus rebukesD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-8596101382938815322007-09-22T15:13:00.000-04:002007-09-22T15:13:00.000-04:00Thanks for the link. I'll read it and respond in e...Thanks for the link. I'll read it and respond in either my next article or an upcoming one.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7103317557422157102007-09-22T13:44:00.000-04:002007-09-22T13:44:00.000-04:00Joseph,Fair enough but be careful that you don't d...Joseph,<BR/><BR/>Fair enough but be careful that you don't debunk the message because of the messenger. I would check this article. <BR/>http://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/DRSimrakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06410461823281234304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37858397349587641022007-09-22T13:30:00.000-04:002007-09-22T13:30:00.000-04:00Dan says: "The Bible says to evaluate everything t...Dan says: "<I>The Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit. </I>"<BR/><BR/>Yes; now let's evaluate the entire Christian religion by its fruit to see if it is of God, analogous to how you evaluated (or "judged") denominations by the actions of its members. The Christian religion has sprouted numerous denominations, which your theology claims is evil (according to a link you left). Indeed, <A HREF="http://dmarvin811.blogspot.com/2007/01/are-you-saved.html" REL="nofollow">you speak vehemently against denominations in your blog</A>. Now, these denominations are the fruit of Christianity, much as the members are fruit of each denomination. <BR/><BR/>So, if the fruit of Christianity are evil, then Christianity must not be of God.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19436636605326402002007-09-22T11:45:00.000-04:002007-09-22T11:45:00.000-04:00Dan: The more you write, the less I see any need ...Dan: The more you write, the less I see any need to offer you an apology -- or for that matter, further notice. However, your dissemination of the myth of Satanic Cults does require some debunking.<BR/><BR/><B>They don't exist</B>. at least as Christians portray them. There are small groups of Satanists, yes. If you look into them, you'll find most of the members are of two types:<BR/>First are those who are (chronologically or emotionally) in their teens or early twenties who are 'acting out' by playing at being 'really, really, <B>really</B> bad.' (They are usually motivated by a mixture of two factors, a desire to 'shock adults' and, frequently, a more hidden -- and I'd argue, religiously caused -- psychological masochism. They are convinced they are damned, deserve punishment, deserve to be hated in the way they have been taught to hate themselves, and by choosing this garb, they can create this effect in others.)<BR/>An even larger group get involved for no other reason than they think it gives them a great chance to get laid.<BR/><BR/>These people are, for the most part, pathetic and silly, but they are harmless. (No, I do not rule out the possibility that some seriously and dangerously disturbed people might, in fact, use Satanism as an excuse for horrible actions -- just as there have been serial killers motivated by a warped view of Christianity and a belief that 'god is speaking to them.' I am unaware of any such people -- the stories of mass murders by Satanists are all provable myths, frequently inspired by the mental manipulation of young people by 'theophostic' psychotherapists -- but they may have existed.)<BR/><BR/>There are a very few 'serious Satanists' who have been inspired by the writings of such as Simon LeVey and Aleistair Crowley -- if you check Wikipedia on this, however, be aware that the 'list of writers who associated with LeVey' were not people who agreed with him. I know of the background of at least two of them, Boucher and Bretnor, and know they remained committed Catholics until their deaths, and the others I recognize and know something about, particularly Derleth and Leiber, were also not Satanists.<BR/><BR/>The 'serious Satanists' are equally absurd but if you read their writings, they are not evil -- well, near the end I've heard LeVey went near the edge, and they frequently constructed their psuedo-philosophy so they could demonstrate that the Christian myths about Satanism were wrong, that their philosophy was as ethical as Christianity. You can even read about them on their own 'Church' websites.<BR/><BR/>Silly, yes, evil, no more so than the members of any group.Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-79960755848138574812007-09-22T11:15:00.000-04:002007-09-22T11:15:00.000-04:00Joseph,Thanks for considering these perspectives. ...Joseph,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for considering these perspectives. I would recommend just reading the link to Mark Goodacre's article, since he explains Crossan's view as well.<BR/><BR/>(The other link is just an interview with Crossan where he talks about several topics, and it is where I got the quote).<BR/><BR/>But if you are really interested, I would again recommend Crossan's book on the topic. It would bolster your case, although in a somewhat different way.Agnosis00https://www.blogger.com/profile/14811257507910103970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42591134318390642072007-09-22T04:05:00.000-04:002007-09-22T04:05:00.000-04:00Agnosis, you bring up some very interesting perspe...Agnosis, you bring up some very interesting perspectives and I will attempt to wade through the rather lengthy articles you linked to. I have no doubt that the New Testament writers believed there were were foreshadows and illusions in the Old Testament to Jesus. The big question in my mind is, can a rational person today come to the same conclusion from studying the Hebrew Scriptures alone? I'm not convinced she can.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-27627947854847584652007-09-22T03:37:00.000-04:002007-09-22T03:37:00.000-04:00Dan, how in the world is any church responsible fo...Dan, how in the world is any church responsible for the free will actions of a couple of its wacko members? To prove your thesis, you would have to show that the vast majority of church of Christ members also murder their husband and kids. You're stretching here and you know it. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and I referenced my email correspondence with you, but I didn't disclose specific conversations. All respect is lost at this point.<BR/><BR/>BTW, you're careful to respond to everything in my comments BUT the one challenge I keep bringing up to you: show me how the messianic prophecies of Matthew and John are genuine and not misquotations of the Old Testament. I dare you.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-13053493018358229172007-09-22T03:31:00.000-04:002007-09-22T03:31:00.000-04:00Investigate, thank you for responding to my challe...Investigate, thank you for responding to my challenge! I want to give your attempted explanations the attention they deserve and I fear that it will get buried 45 comments deep, so please stay tuned for a follow-up article in the next day or two. <BR/><BR/>drsimrak, Chuck Missler runs in the same circle as Hal Lindsey and the "last days madness" crowd, so I would be cautious about his perspectives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<BR/>Chuck_Missler). Having said that, if you have a specific article by him relevant to the prophecies at hand, I'd be happy to read it.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-13387138859340129592007-09-22T03:24:00.000-04:002007-09-22T03:24:00.000-04:00Joseph "Dan, in our emails (since you want to air ...Joseph <B>"Dan, in our emails (since you want to air them publicly),"</B> <BR/> <BR/>Sorry wrong again buddy you did this first, remember? You said <B>"I've been corresponding via email with Dan for the past two days and I'm convinced this guy is seriously whack. All I'm getting from him is a drone-like dialog and a lot of condescending "I feel sorry for you" statements."</B> Which just wasn't true at all. you are misrepresenting the facts. <BR/> <BR/>Joseph <B>"you state that the church of Christ breeds murderers and devils"</B> again from my blog: The Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit. We don't even have to address the Catholic Church and the mass pedophiles, and the crusades to determine the fruit, it is obvious. <BR/> <BR/>The woman who murdered her husband earlier this year in Tennessee and Andrea Yates (drown her 5 kids) were fruits of the church of christ. Look at Revelation 2-3 Jesus is condemning the evil of the many different assemblies. I will stand on what I said, they have a false doctrine. <BR/> <BR/>Joseph <B>"you're (your) website is full of injunctions to be baptized"</B> Yes, baptized into Christ not water maybe I need to be clearer about it. I will pray about it and maybe make some changes to be clearer. <BR/> <BR/>Joseph <B>"Another inconsistency in your story."</B> How is not mentioning something an inconsistency when it isn't even part of salvation. <BR/> <BR/>Your question to me was <B>"Dan, how do you know there is a God and that you are truly born again?"</B> I know I am born again through my repentance and Trust in Jesus, it had nothing to do with water baptism. Even though I was baptised with water also, it has nothing to do with my salvation or knowing I am truly Born Again. Consistent and true. <BR/> <BR/>Prup (aka Jim Benton) you owe me an apology <B>"I suppose, if I'm wrong I owe you an apology, but having read your 'personal testimony,' I don't believe a word of it."</B> <BR/> <BR/>Shygetz <B>"neither prup nor joseph are saying your religion is false because you are a liar, they are just saying you are a liar. No ad hominem fallacy,"</B> <BR/> <BR/>They believe I am a liar AND that my religion is false (replace because with and) I understand your point, it is still a thin line between the two. Isn't the whole blog debunking Christianity? If they find a Christian to be a liar, is that feeding their cause? I will stand on the ad hominem fallacy but you made a point. <BR/> <BR/>DRSimrak <B>"However, and this is something that I learned the hard way, it's not about shoving the gospel down people's throats, but sharing the reason and the cause for the hope that we have in Christ Jesus."</B> I understand 1 Peter 3:15 and I Agree. With all do respect have you gotten to know any of these individuals? After this long of talking to them, I am to the point of real concern for their souls.<BR/><BR/>We get to a point that the child needs a wake up call. The Bible describes hell as unquenchable fire,(Mark 9:43) outer darkness,(Matthew 22:13) a furnace of fire and a place where people wail and gnash their teeth,(Matthew 13:42) and a lake of fire.(Revelation 20:15) where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched,(Mark 9:48) and where people are in agony in flames.(Luke 16:24) Perhaps the most terrifying passage in the Bible describing hell says that men will drink the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night." (Revelation 14:10-11)<BR/><BR/>Some verses I am using in the back of my head while I talk to these folks is <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%205:11,Hebrews%2010:31,Romans%203:19,1%20Timothy%201:9-10,Romans%207:7-8,2%20Timothy%203:16;&version=9;" REL="nofollow">2 Corinthians 5:11,Hebrews 10:31,Romans 3:19,1 Timothy 1:9-10,Romans 7:7-8,2 Timothy 3:16</A><BR/> <BR/>Either way rejoice DRSimrak as it says in Philippians 1:15-18 <BR/> <BR/>"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. <BR/> <BR/>What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-11013082027977755432007-09-22T01:31:00.000-04:002007-09-22T01:31:00.000-04:00Dan,I'm not disputing the ways of Salvation. Scri...Dan,<BR/>I'm not disputing the ways of Salvation. Scripture is clear that it is by grace through faith. I'm disputing your method, arguments and disputes get people no where.<BR/><BR/>Yes, we need to share the truth and yes, we should be honest about it. However, and this is something that I learned the hard way, it's not about shoving the gospel down people's throats, but sharing the reason and the cause for the hope that we have in Christ Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Joseph,<BR/><BR/>The prophecy I'm referring too has a couple of different hinges. In Genesis 3:15 We are told that there will be enmity between the seed of the woman and the offspring of the serpent.<BR/><BR/>Then in Genesis 4:25 Eve gives birth to Seth which means appointed. Her first two sons are out of the running of those who can fulfill the prophecy. Cain killed Abel and well Abel was killed by Cain. So when she gives birth to Seth (appointed) she believed he would fulfill the prophesy.<BR/><BR/>Something that was definitely cultural of the time was that children were named for a reason, not just because it sounded cool. So in looking at the text we see that there is a prophesy here.<BR/><BR/>Now, I wouldn't form a whole scriptural doctrine in which I strictly adhered to from this, but it's a start. I referred to Chuck Missler earlier, but he has done a lot of work on this subject. I would encourage you to check him out. He's someone that has done some homework,DRSimrakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06410461823281234304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-76103417908543841012007-09-22T01:07:00.000-04:002007-09-22T01:07:00.000-04:00And just while I'm at it...the reference to Nazare...And just while I'm at it...the reference to Nazarene. Nazareth was, of course, an insignificant village in Galilee.<BR/><BR/>Isa 9:1, the chapter helpfully titled "To Us a Child is Born", suggests the Messiah will be a Galilean...<BR/><BR/>Given the Micah 5:2 reference to Bethlehem...we now have an interesting couple of prophecies highlighting different parts of the Messiah's heritage...yes?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05470121888188717798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1263930074302314642007-09-22T00:44:00.000-04:002007-09-22T00:44:00.000-04:00I don't want to rain on your parade, Joseph, but I...I don't want to rain on your parade, Joseph, but I found a more intriguing verse that could foreshadow the bone reference.<BR/><BR/>Numbers 9:12 speaks about the Passover Lamb, which of course Christ became with his crucifixion. The verse says of the Lamb, "They must not leave any of it till morning, or break any of its bones".<BR/><BR/>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Christ taken off the cross before nightfall?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05470121888188717798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-5666144353605407162007-09-21T23:00:00.000-04:002007-09-21T23:00:00.000-04:00Dan, in our emails (since you want to air them pub...Dan, in our emails (since you want to air them publicly), you state that the church of Christ breeds murderers and devils (like the woman who murdered her husband earlier this year in Tennessee). The baptism issue was brought up because you're website is full of injunctions to be baptized (you link there, and in one of your previous comments here, to the 5 Steps--a classic formula of the church of Christ)...yet you don't mention baptism once in your "testimony" here. Another inconsistency in your story. <BR/><BR/>You're like a drone, in that you continue to mouth the same tired religious dogma, but you cannot seem to respond to an argument on the issue that generated this article--namely the disingenuous nature of the Messianic prophecies. <BR/><BR/>I would love to, love to, LOVE TO have a straightforward conversation about ONE single strain of thought with you, Dan. Instead, everything keeps coming back to you "I want to help you." This is a place for thinkers to exchange ideas about the validity of Christianity. Can you defend the prophecies I mentioned in my article or not?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.com