tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post4981223314153573700..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: "Thank You For Your Book John"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-77432206160611178672010-02-10T01:06:50.823-05:002010-02-10T01:06:50.823-05:00I'm a Christian who has been reading atheistic...I'm a Christian who has been reading atheistic and theistic books back and forth since 2006 or so, actually because I was questioning my faith. I think it is important for anybody really searching for truth to consider both sides of things. Yeah, it's great and all to read 100 atheistic books, but its also important to read books that are theistic and possibly counter some of the arguments put forward in the atheistic books. This way you get both sides of the story. <br /><br />if one doesn't do this, chances are they will end up believing what they read because it sounds so convincing without anybody saying otherwise. It would be like having WLC have a debate with an atheist but WLC wasn't allowed to talk. Who would win? Obviously the atheist because he gets to speak freely without reply. But the whole point of finding truth is finding the best explanation, which means considering everything, even Hinduism or Islam or Zoroastrianism. <br /><br />I try to practice what I preach, as the saying goes, and here's where I am today: much stronger Christian than before, but still a lot of unanswered questions and a long way to go. Philosophically, I have come to believe that Christians have the edge (Plantinga is quite a philosopher, even if he is a Christian). But it seems that the field of biology is stronger on the atheistic side, thanks to the theory of evolution by natural selection. In the area of biblical studies, it seems pretty even. Ehrman is very knowledgeable, although he seems to leave out some of the details that are against his view. <br /><br />So my recommendation is read everything about the topic, pros and cons, for and against, and then make a decision. reading only one leads to a semi-brainwash, and that goes for Christians, atheists, and agnostics alike.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-13335475805773361162010-01-04T00:24:53.718-05:002010-01-04T00:24:53.718-05:00Overlooked is Ted Drange who wrote "The Argum...Overlooked is Ted Drange who wrote "The Argument from Evil....and Non-Belief."nearenoughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485494861515111473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51079187716481198592007-11-25T18:23:00.000-05:002007-11-25T18:23:00.000-05:00Whatever became of the MERE ATHEISM (working title...Whatever became of the MERE ATHEISM (working title)?Eric Shermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09408312260177939450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19652567470102989472007-10-16T13:47:00.000-04:002007-10-16T13:47:00.000-04:00Thanks for visiting, Dave M. Come back often. I lo...Thanks for visiting, Dave M. Come back often. I look forward to you trashing my book. ;-)<BR/><BR/>BTW: Amazon doesn't tell us much about your book or you. I'd like to know about both. Sounds like a good book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66020188655142527502007-10-16T13:07:00.000-04:002007-10-16T13:07:00.000-04:00Hi, folks. Fascinating to find a book called "The...Hi, folks. Fascinating to find a book called "The Necessity of Atheism" by a chap named David Marshall Brooks. My name happens to be David Brooks Marshall, and I just wrote a book called The Truth Behind the New Atheism, refuting these guys. Happy to see lots of my victims strewn across this young man's list; also good to come across a site for better-informed atheists. I guess that means the next generation of anti-God books will be more of a challenge than those produced by Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, and Hitchens? <BR/><BR/>Pardon the banter; I do take truth seriously, and those who search for it. Best wishes to you all.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66590344453864954962007-10-07T11:04:00.000-04:002007-10-07T11:04:00.000-04:00Oh John your such a drama queen sometimes. Ive rea...Oh John your such a drama queen sometimes. Ive read some of the books listed, others I am not going to waste my time picking up. Ive read Dawkins and Mackie and ive certainly withstood the "onslaught" (this is where the drama queen comment comes in) of your various comments and statments over the months. The problem is that many of the people on this website held a very emotional, fundamentalist form of Christianity and once the brittle foundation of that fell then the entire house of cards caved in with it, at least from my observation of statements made. Many people lose their faith for many different reasons, but at least from my perspective as a convert to middle-Anglicanism the reasons usually are far more emotional and irrational than individuals would like to allow. I also think Kevin H makes a very good point, if many people are going to try to defend the faith we cannot expect some to lose it for (what I consider) bad reasons, especially because some people offer bad reasons for holding it. It is one of the down-sides of being fallible.GordonBloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16426901390201595020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51446779002712674382007-10-06T12:16:00.000-04:002007-10-06T12:16:00.000-04:00GordonBlood as I said elsewhere, "it is what it is...GordonBlood as I said elsewhere, "it is what it is." I don't make too much of it, nor do I discount it. Andrew has been persuaded to believe differently even though he was well read in Christian apologetical literature. Does it prove anything? To him it does, and it reinforces my beliefs. I'd like you to do likewise. Read through 100 skeptical books. Give it a try. Start with mine. See if your faith can withstand the onslaught. He tried it and he lost his faith. Can your faith be maintained if you do the same?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10115518487899927152007-10-06T11:34:00.000-04:002007-10-06T11:34:00.000-04:00My apologies for making two posts, i had to leave....My apologies for making two posts, i had to leave. My point is this however. Yes, if he is being honest in his readings (which though their are many liars on these blogs, religious and no, I will accept as a matter of "faith") then he has read much. But this proves nothing. There are plenty of Christians who have obviosuly done the same amount of reading and come to opposite conclusions. Nevermind the massive amount of bad scholarship in the atheist sections (again, if you want to argue that Earl Doherty or Robert Price are good scholars you better go knock on the door of a secular scholar like Ed Sanders and get ready to be dissapointed). Ultimately an atheist and a Christian must go straight to the heart of the arguments themselves; not list a large section of books and act as though that means anything. Ive read plenty of secular books and plenty of Christian books and I come to the position of Christian theism? Does it prove anything? Nope. If he read all these works presupposing inerrancy or something however then of course such a deconversion would make perfect sense. However, if he does join im sure his viewpoints would be interesting.GordonBloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16426901390201595020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-38533884303257339022007-10-06T11:22:00.000-04:002007-10-06T11:22:00.000-04:00This reminds me somewhat of Dan Barker, at least i...This reminds me somewhat of Dan Barker, at least if I understand Barker at all. The story is familiar, a former fundamentalist who never actually questioned his faith (this seems implied by the writing but I may be wrong) becomes an atheist. Perhaps the biggest problem I had was a. Reading books does not mean absorbing the aruguments and implications contained within. I say tis especially becauseof hte massive disparity of views the authors held, Richard Swinburne is far more scholarly and rational then Geisler. Second, and more importantly, he listed some works which any scholar of any religious inclination would laugh at. Earl Doherty is a joke and Robert Prices arguments (yes, ive read them) are only subtly better. I think all this proves is the famous pendulum effect (a person goes from one extreme to another in an extremely short period of time). He also fails to tell if he was actually a fundamentalist all along as, frankly, most of the Christian scholars he mentions are very much not fundamentalist and many are not evangelical.GordonBloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16426901390201595020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-35295977674749997272007-10-04T18:09:00.000-04:002007-10-04T18:09:00.000-04:00rmcm, a question in return: which God should we be...rmcm, a question in return: which God should we be praying to? The Christian God? The Jewish God? The Muslim God? The Mormon God? The Zoroastrianism God? The pantheon of Greek gods? (hey, just because they are out of style doesn't mean they are any less valid, does it?) <BR/><BR/>Once we've determined who to pray to, how long should we pray? With what words? How do you even know this god or these gods hear and respond to human petition? <BR/><BR/>There seems to be an assumption that if someone like myself just seeks God hard enough and long enough he will find a god who is identical with conservative, Protestant theology. And correct me if I'm wrong, but to be a Christian, believing in God is the bare minimum that is required (doesn't James say, "Even the demons believe and tremble"?). After belief in God, you must believe that Jesus is God, then that God is triune, then that the Bible is God's revelation, that the church is his temple...there is a whole chain of dots that a person must try to connect. <BR/><BR/>I guess I just came to a place in my Christian experience where I realized that the lines didn't connect. The dots themselves are an artificially created map that doesn't fit with reality.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61465558507796678742007-10-04T14:49:00.000-04:002007-10-04T14:49:00.000-04:00I would like to pose one question to you all. How ...<I>I would like to pose one question to you all. How many of you have spent 1/100 of your time you have spent in reading in actually trying to talk to God about your doubts, fears, questions and anger?</I><BR/><BR/>I did. Shouting into the void just gives you laryngitis.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-8320133067500594882007-10-04T14:12:00.000-04:002007-10-04T14:12:00.000-04:00Ea, I have indeed asked him to join DC. I'm waitin...Ea, I have indeed asked him to join DC. I'm waiting for a response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61929866556660955832007-10-04T12:52:00.000-04:002007-10-04T12:52:00.000-04:00From the looks of it, I'll be the one blogger here...From the looks of it, I'll be the one blogger here going against the grain. Excuse me.<BR/><BR/>I would like to pose one question to you all. How many of you have spent 1/100 of your time you have spent in reading in actually trying to talk to God about your doubts, fears, questions and anger?<BR/><BR/>I know thoughts like this seem simplistic, but that is who our creator is, simple. Able to create a universe we are only beginning to get our minds around, yet simple. Who is the one making things complicated?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18098976995956941962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-549260657137329462007-10-04T01:26:00.000-04:002007-10-04T01:26:00.000-04:00All I can say is that I envy Andrew's prodigious ...All I can say is that I envy Andrew's prodigious knack for reading so many books so quickly (I have to fight being skeptical, but then I remember Good Will Hunting. Or perhaps Andrew just knows some good speed reading techniques!). I almost lost my love for reading by the 2nd year of my MBA program. With my faith crisis, I've rediscovered the love of reading again (and Borders Rewards)! Here are the books that are currently in rotation on my toilet seat:<BR/><BR/>"Doubt" by Jennifer Michael Hecht<BR/>"A History of God" by Karen Armstrong<BR/>"Jesus in America: A History" by Richard Wightman Fox<BR/>"The Passion of the Western Mind" by Richard Tarnas<BR/>"God Against the Gods" by Jonathan Kirsh.<BR/>"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins<BR/><BR/>All of them great reads so far.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-44770141314632732002007-10-03T18:14:00.000-04:002007-10-03T18:14:00.000-04:00John,Have you asked this person to contribute to t...John,<BR/><BR/>Have you asked this person to contribute to this blog? That would be great if he came on board.<BR/><BR/>EAexapologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09915579495149582531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45381814892286824662007-10-03T12:50:00.000-04:002007-10-03T12:50:00.000-04:00Is there an atheist equivalent to Peter Kreeft's "...Is there an atheist equivalent to Peter Kreeft's "The Best Things In Life"? Or any Socratic type of argument?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-49805725473434463612007-10-03T09:45:00.000-04:002007-10-03T09:45:00.000-04:00Ravi Zacharias and others often refer to the "apol...Ravi Zacharias and others often refer to the "apologetics renaissance" in the Christian church. It is traceable to McDowell's <I>ETDAV</I>. That book launched multitudes into apologetics in the 70's - including me. <BR/><BR/>The movement grew in the 80's with the John Ankerberg Show. He introduced Norm Geisler and others to the layperson.<BR/><BR/>The 90's saw the internet and Hugh Ross come on the scene along with William Lane Craig's debate with Frank Zindler.<BR/><BR/>Recently, the <I>Case for Christ</I> series from Lee Strobel, and a boost for C.S. Lewis via the <I>Chronicles</I> movie, has further solidified Mars Hill among the lay Christian.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I fully expect to lose a few apologists exponentially. In what seems to be either a growing or more vocal "Ex-Christian" movement, there will be apologists among them.<BR/><BR/>I also expect "ex-apologists" to be as passionate for their changed view. <BR/><BR/>I told John that we Christians are getting a dose of our own medicine. We have paraded "ex-atheists", "ex-satanists", and "ex-everything-else" on our platforms for years. Sadly, this has probably been due to sensationalism rather than content.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71111793718930106492007-10-03T07:04:00.000-04:002007-10-03T07:04:00.000-04:00That is the best recommendation I have read yet. I...That is the best recommendation I have read yet. I even copied his post for a list of additional books to read, although I have most of them there a quite a few new titles listed. I also found the book “Leaving the Fold” by Edward T. Babinski (there are several books with the same title so be careful to pick this one) to be very useful as well. Fortunately, for me, I was never very religious at all, I was more of a skeptic and never knew it even had a title (agnostic, freethinker, etc.) but I did have some nagging questions about the Bible I was raised to believe. These were answered by John’s book. After I read the section about the flood, it because painfully obvious to me that the only way to believe this material was to turn off your mind and as I read more, I could hear the sound of a mind cranking over like an old car. Finally it started and I was off and running.ChrisKGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12239720301559642690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-58372898705432158182007-10-03T01:04:00.000-04:002007-10-03T01:04:00.000-04:00Whoever this guy is--I'm impressed. I'd hope to se...Whoever this guy is--I'm impressed. I'd hope to see him doing some writing himself, since with his reading background he could quite confidently anticipate every move an apologist might throw at him. The new Prometheus book also sounds like a good read.The Uncredible Hallqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09565179884099473943noreply@blogger.com