tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post4827518164023753641..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Dr. Kenneth Howell's Challenge to AtheistsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18804260125392539482010-02-15T10:13:03.307-05:002010-02-15T10:13:03.307-05:00Rob,
Do you care to provide us an objective metho...Rob,<br /><br />Do you care to provide us an objective methodology that will lead to peer-reviewed information, falsifiable and repeatable that can be employed to examine supernaturalism?<br /><br />I'd be glad to hear about it.<br /><br />Until then, your smug insistence that not knowing specifics of electrons is equivalent to your Christianity is just plain stupid.<br /><br />Now, what experiments are you willing to share with us where we might independently confirm your rhetorically derived wishful thinking and moral superiority?Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15657598456196932490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-11806532024688745452010-02-14T16:29:01.591-05:002010-02-14T16:29:01.591-05:00"What Breckmin can't prove, though, is th..."What Breckmin can't prove, though, is that "nothingness" is the natural state of things without intervention (or cause)."<br /><br />Why would I prove something that is illogical? "Nothing comes from nothing." And even "nothing" is still "something" in the English.<br /><br />I would not propose creation ex nihilo as a proper nomenclature for God's creation of matter and energies.<br /><br /><br />"Somethingness" could just as well be the natural state of things at the substrate level of whatever this universe is built upon."<br /><br />The Infinite Creator as the Uncaused Cause of all things would be the default. He sustains the universe which He created.<br /><br /><br /><br />"There may very well be no such thing as "nothingness."<br /><br />Even a universe where infinite free space surrounds quantum space would still be "something" surrounding space. FTR, I believe in the possibility an infinite equilibrium of some sort which I can not logically define.<br /><br />"Heck, even in this universe, there is no known or postulated place that isn't occupied by a quantum foam and field lines of all sorts."<br /><br />It is all theory and based on induction. There is no way to falsify what is trillions of light years away.<br /><br />3 dimensional spatial existence is clearly infinite. Mathematics teaches us this as well as the concept of infinite relative inner space.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-12028994965694686932010-02-14T16:28:43.599-05:002010-02-14T16:28:43.599-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-32333926380770143772010-02-14T16:16:26.660-05:002010-02-14T16:16:26.660-05:00"What standard? do you use to prove your Infi..."What standard? do you use to prove your Infinite Creator is actually any better than a Infinte Unicorn?"<br /><br />If something is Infinite then it is NOT a unicorn. You only expose the reality that an Infinite Conscious Existence or an Infinite Personal Existence beyond the limitations of time and space (NOT somehow "outside of time" which is incorrect in the English)is clearly not to be compared to finite imaginary constructs.<br /><br />nothing with limbs or parts can be compared to the Infinite Creator.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39185162216128484012010-02-14T16:15:49.302-05:002010-02-14T16:15:49.302-05:00I have a hard time accepting the argument that to ...<em>I have a hard time accepting the argument that to accept any conclusion we must have performed all steps ourselves.</em><br /><br />Very good then. I would never promote such a conclusion.<br /><br /><em>Science as a practice is successful because it has built-in incentives to root out fraud and self-deception, because it requires confirmation from independent parties.</em><br /><br />Independent parties to which the vast majority of humanity does not belong. <br /><br /><em>To say that we don't have evidence because we haven't personally replicated the experiment seems like a bizarrely extreme position to take.</em><br /><br />It sure is. hard evidence is such a subjective term is it not?<br /><br /><em>Do I have hard evidence as in peer-reviewed, replicated experiments, a century of theoretical and practical study, and thousands of concrete applications of the science, then yes</em><br /><br />Good for you then. You belong to the very small minority of which the majority does not and cannot reasonably be expected to belong to since we need people to contribute and excel in other areas of life other than science. We must trust and granted we have reason to trust with all the benefits of gadgets and medicine. That's the way it should be as well.Rob Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937716910001145836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62977609689269979542010-02-14T16:12:40.141-05:002010-02-14T16:12:40.141-05:00me-"Question why other gods are NOT God's...me-"Question why other gods are NOT God's of GRACE who forgive sin the way in which Jesus does."<br /><br /><br />Jonathan "Because Mr Breckmin your God gave us the problem"<br /><br />Love's right to exist trumps sin/disobedience's inevitable existence that needs to be punished or paid for. God doesn't GIVE us the problem. If you present this incorrectly it will not make sense. Unless you address the fact that God creates beings with the ability to love and all of the potential dangers that this brings that NEED to be dealt with in a temporary creation you will miss your own salvation from these dangers. (How you are actually a danger to yourself because of the choices you will make).<br /><br /><br />"that only he can cure with a sacrifice"<br /><br />This is not some pagan sacrifice where an animal is killed and offered up unto another finite existence that is barbaric...<br /><br />No. This is the Infinite Creator becoming a Man and "Giving Himself" in LOVE by PAYING FOR the sins of those Who would logically TRUST in Him. Trusting God is logical... Putting your faith in Him rather than in yourself is much more logical than putting your faith in "partial logic" which misses the real problem of evil.<br /><br />"that no one wanted."<br /><br />Born-again Christians not only want it with all of their hearts soul and minds...but they will praise Him and thank Him for His Love for all of eternity.Breckminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6856267271140764432010-02-14T13:52:23.350-05:002010-02-14T13:52:23.350-05:00Rob R
If we did have someone that conducted the e...Rob R<br /><br />If we did have someone that conducted the experiments which created quantum dots and isolated single electrons or built electron guns capable of trickling out single electrons (or even replicated Miliken's early oil drop experiment), there will always be other experiments that we have not performed ourselves. Even within these experiments we must use technologies that we are not familiar with. I have a hard time accepting the argument that to accept any conclusion we must have performed all steps ourselves.<br /><br />Science as a practice is successful because it has built-in incentives to root out fraud and self-deception, because it requires confirmation from independent parties. The system has proved extraordinarily successful so we are placing our trust in the system and there is ample evidence that the system does work, not merely in spite of our selfish tendencies but because of them (fame & fortune await for those who can expose fraud or overturn accepted theories).<br /><br />To say that we don't have evidence because we haven't personally replicated the experiment seems like a bizarrely extreme position to take.<br /><br />Do I have hard evidence for electrons as in the hardware sitting in the room with me? No, of course not. Do I have hard evidence as in peer-reviewed, replicated experiments, a century of theoretical and practical study, and thousands of concrete applications of the science, then yes, absolutely.<br /><br />I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he is not asking for this.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08694840174170043470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30062923439734079852010-02-14T13:36:41.523-05:002010-02-14T13:36:41.523-05:00seriously, just how much lab time has John Loftus ...seriously, just how much lab time has John Loftus logged? I'm sure I've had far more lab time than him and I would never suggest that I have hard evidence for the existence of electrons.Rob Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937716910001145836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-860845744462121922010-02-14T13:34:39.245-05:002010-02-14T13:34:39.245-05:00At the risk of not reading 53 comments at this poi...At the risk of not reading 53 comments at this point, I would point out if it has not been discussed that the vast majority of the population does not believe in the existence of electrons on the basis of hard evidence. The vast majority of the population can't assess such evidence for themselves. We believe this story about electrons because we are taught it in school and because we are told (though certainly not 1st hand) that a few of the people who work in the narrative of atomic theory and the existence of electrons are the ones who produce TVs, microwaves and batteries. That is a far cry from recognizing hard evidence for electrons.Rob Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937716910001145836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-20571934753682685562010-02-14T04:08:57.303-05:002010-02-14T04:08:57.303-05:00@Cole
Then I apologize for getting in your face a...<b>@Cole</b><br /><br />Then I apologize for getting in your face about "your" God. You have issues that you need to work out, and you don't need to be bothered by my insistence that you need to explain yourself. <br /><br />I hope you get well. <br /><br /><br />JonathanJonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-77635651636753347532010-02-14T03:52:32.611-05:002010-02-14T03:52:32.611-05:00I go to Alcholics Anonymous. I don't go to chu...I go to Alcholics Anonymous. I don't go to church anymore.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1141238779417426012010-02-14T03:46:59.183-05:002010-02-14T03:46:59.183-05:00@Cole
You have given "God" specific pro...<b>@Cole</b><br /><br />You have given "God" specific properties that you deem worthy of a God. There is nothing specific about your God other than what people generally believe of a God. <br /><br />You have created God in your interpretation of what a God should be like void of any prior religious practice.<br /><br />Do you go to church?Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90067747572233089412010-02-14T03:42:54.530-05:002010-02-14T03:42:54.530-05:00Funny how god always tends to agree with you. Ther...Funny how god always tends to agree with you. There's scientific studies on the matter now. Why you change your mind, wouldn't ya know it, so do your god(s)!<br /><br />Welcome to the machine.Glock21https://www.blogger.com/profile/03963381850606106973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66617147251141627402010-02-14T03:32:41.855-05:002010-02-14T03:32:41.855-05:00Jonathan,
God is not in my image. There are ways ...Jonathan,<br /><br />God is not in my image. There are ways I'm like God and ways I'm not.<br /><br />God is eternal I'm not<br /><br />God is infinite in wisdom I'm not<br /><br />God is self-sufficient I'm not<br /><br />God is perfect I'm not<br /><br />God is all-powerful I'm not<br /><br />God's ways are the ways of infinite wisdom mine aren't<br /><br />God knows everything I don't<br /><br />I'm humbled in believing that there's a God and I'm not like Him in every way. There's a huge distance between me and God.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71356047941872115712010-02-14T03:21:02.990-05:002010-02-14T03:21:02.990-05:00Cole
You have made God in your image, congratulat...<b>Cole</b><br /><br />You have made God in your image, congratulations. <br /><br />You are a religion of one.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70007698284679016942010-02-14T02:56:04.609-05:002010-02-14T02:56:04.609-05:00Jonathan,
My God is:
All-knowing
All-powerful
...Jonathan,<br /><br />My God is:<br /><br />All-knowing<br /><br />All-powerful<br /><br />Perfect<br /><br />Full of Grace<br /><br />Just<br /><br />Self-sufficient<br /><br />Eternal<br /><br />Infinite in wisdomJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-83465552009659407632010-02-14T02:51:37.961-05:002010-02-14T02:51:37.961-05:00Breckmin,
I haven't studied all the other god...Breckmin,<br /><br />I haven't studied all the other gods in the world so I don't know about them being gods of grace. My God is a God of grace though.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91987163296086571532010-02-14T02:51:29.789-05:002010-02-14T02:51:29.789-05:00@Cole
Which God and religion do you practice?@Cole<br /><br /><br />Which God and religion do you practice?Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-54084106705655210502010-02-14T02:47:14.563-05:002010-02-14T02:47:14.563-05:00Jonathan,
I disagree. I think God created the uni...Jonathan,<br /><br />I disagree. I think God created the universe. He's the Creator I'm the creature. He brought the universe into existence.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-36263939850185726472010-02-14T02:41:22.071-05:002010-02-14T02:41:22.071-05:00@ Cole
There isn't any reason why you need to...<b>@ Cole</b><br /><br />There isn't any reason why you need to tell anyone you are seeing a psychiatrist it really doesn't help with the conversation. Besides it is bloody personal. <br /><br />I'm sorry Cole but you have made up your God or your God is just a extension of your own personality. <br /><br /><br />Believers' Inferences About God's Beliefs Are Uniquely Egocentric<br />www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091130151321.htm<br /><br /><br /><b>@Breckmin </b><br /><br />Question why other gods are NOT God's of GRACE who forgive sin the way in which Jesus does.<br /><br /><br />Because Mr Breckmin your God gave us the problem that only he can cure with a sacrifice that no one wanted.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45628492145051771972010-02-14T02:34:39.455-05:002010-02-14T02:34:39.455-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715319397553428894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-14568469578856585472010-02-14T00:35:06.555-05:002010-02-14T00:35:06.555-05:00Breckmin said..."A unicorn, however, is quite...Breckmin said..."A unicorn, however, is quite different from an Infinite Creator Who ends infinite regression with LOGICAL uncaused cause of all things."<br /><br />Maybe not if it so happens, its a Infinite Unicorn !<br /><br />What standard? do you use to prove your Infinite Creator is actually any better than a Infinte Unicorn?Gandolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624178234332819107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-54251591603673446832010-02-14T00:14:25.950-05:002010-02-14T00:14:25.950-05:00Brekmin,
My properly functioning cognitive facult...Brekmin,<br /><br />My properly functioning cognitive faculties (faculties that are functioning the way God designed them to function - rationaly) tell me that blessing someone for bashing the brains out of an infant against the rocks is insane. There is also no reason to require the blood of an innocent to forgive someone. It's bizzare.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-8631621520967238922010-02-13T23:45:30.238-05:002010-02-13T23:45:30.238-05:00What Breckmin can't prove, though, is that &qu...What Breckmin can't prove, though, is that "nothingness" is the natural state of things without intervention (or cause).<br /><br />"Somethingness" could just as well be the natural state of things at the substrate level of whatever this universe is built upon. There may very well be no such thing as "nothingness." Heck, even in this universe, there is no known or postulated place that isn't occupied by a quantum foam and field lines of all sorts.<br /><br />Apologists need "nothingness" (ex nihilo) to make their word games work.<br /><br />"I don't know" how our universe came into being is a much more reasonable position for the time being.<br /><br />Breckmin will cling to his security blanket and word games, somehow convincing himself he's got the answer. In 20,000 years, when Jesus still hasn't returned, humanity will be beyond Christianity and on to something else.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03562922818694517439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-41520128938724761782010-02-13T23:39:21.207-05:002010-02-13T23:39:21.207-05:00Brekman,
There is no reason for the Creator to re...Brekman,<br /><br />There is no reason for the Creator to require blood from an innocent in order to forgive someone. This is bizzare. What kind of a god requires innocent blood to forgive? My God doesn't require the shedding of blood from an innocent in order to forgive. It's simple. I ask for forgiveness and my God forgives. He's not the type of Deity who blesses people for bashing the brains out of innocents.<br /><br />Drop the barbaric god of the bible and learn what true freedom is.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.com