tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post4284960641925372711..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Did Jesus Have a Functioning Set of Nuts (Testicles)?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61961239178893227192008-06-23T10:31:00.000-04:002008-06-23T10:31:00.000-04:00It's VERY SIMPLE Harry. When looking at prophecie...It's VERY SIMPLE Harry. When looking at prophecies it is pretty obvious that fulfilment of the End Times ones will take place soon after the "time of the Gentiles" keeping control of Jerusalem is over. The Jews have had control of Jerusalem since like 1967 (six day war). So when Jesus was saying that a particular generation would not taste death until all that stuff was fulfilled, he was talking about the "generation" of all those living during the Gentile Occupation, plus those who were alive when the Jews got Jerusalem back.<BR/><BR/>Geez, how could you miss that?Drow Rangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05002367011933665749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37959028231980152522008-06-13T11:35:00.000-04:002008-06-13T11:35:00.000-04:00drow ranger, you've got me out in left field witho...drow ranger, you've got me out in left field without a glove on! You've lost me with this last comment.Harry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7117347399210500482008-06-13T09:56:00.000-04:002008-06-13T09:56:00.000-04:00Harry, nice try. But The end of the "days of the ...Harry, nice try. But The end of the "days of the Gentiles" was in 1967. And last I checked, all the people living then hadn't died off yet.Drow Rangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05002367011933665749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-9619206769762344712008-06-06T18:26:00.000-04:002008-06-06T18:26:00.000-04:00Dear Tigg13,I should clarify my previous comment.W...Dear Tigg13,<BR/>I should clarify my previous comment.<BR/><BR/>When I say that Karl takes 'a fee for service', I mean that he earns 100% commission on the deal. :)DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-64365130131308924172008-06-06T14:29:00.000-04:002008-06-06T14:29:00.000-04:00Tigg13 Wrote: "Do you give Hank 10% of everything ...Tigg13 Wrote: "Do you give Hank 10% of everything you have?"<BR/><BR/>No, you give it to Karl and he 'passes it on', minus his 'fee for service' of course. ;-)DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-40425132569879592222008-06-06T14:19:00.000-04:002008-06-06T14:19:00.000-04:00Dan Marvin wrote:"The Christadelphians, by having ...Dan Marvin wrote:<BR/>"The Christadelphians, by having a Jesus who has a sin nature, cannot have a proper sacrifice by which their sins are atoned for. According to the Old Testament, the sacrifice for sins had to be without blemish (Deut. 17:1). Having a sin nature would definitely be a blemish which would invalidate the sacrifice."<BR/><BR/>But I thought that most Christians would argue that Yahweh never approved of or accepted human sacrifices. In fact here's a whole thread which discusses this issue on this very website, just several articles down from this one. You might like to read it if you haven't already done so.<BR/><BR/>Please read your words again Dan, and think carefully about them for a moment.<BR/><BR/>"Christadelphians cannot have a proper (human) sacrifice by which their sins are atoned for"???<BR/>We certainly can't allow them to have an 'invalid' human sacrifice can we now? <BR/><BR/>How does the concept of your sacrificial god-man really differ from the Aztec priest in the jungles of South America, who would cut out the heart of his bleeding victim in order to cajole his gods into bestowing favour upon him and his people? Can you understand how discustingly primitive and barbaric your words might sound to an unbeliever?<BR/>Why aren't Christians ashamed about buying into this kind of moral filth?<BR/><BR/>Yuck Dan! Just yuck.DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-49690497963011298552008-06-06T06:09:00.000-04:002008-06-06T06:09:00.000-04:00Wilma: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come expre...Wilma: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come express loyalty to Hank with us."<BR/><BR/>And just how does one "express loyalty"?<BR/><BR/>Do you just sit and read Hank's book at the exclusion of all else?<BR/><BR/>Do you spend a few hours each weeks at Hank's house listening to sermons?<BR/><BR/>Do you give Hank 10% of everything you have?<BR/><BR/>Do you ignore all of the teriible things that have been done in Hank's name?<BR/><BR/>Do you ignore all of the terrible things that Hank's book says Hank has done himself?<BR/><BR/>Do you defend Hank against his enemies?<BR/><BR/>Do you argue with them?<BR/><BR/>Do you try to limit their rights to believe as they wish and communicate their thoughts because this leads to heresy and blasphomy against Hank.<BR/><BR/>Do you conspire against them?<BR/><BR/>Do you fight them?<BR/><BR/>Stone them?<BR/><BR/>Blow up their clinics?<BR/><BR/>Do you go to war against them and, if possible wipe them out of existance?<BR/><BR/>Do you hate Hank's enemies out of loyalty to Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would you allow one of Hank's friends to get away with a crime, like rape or child molesting, out of loyalty to Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would you sit and do nothing while a loved one died because because calling a doctor might be considered a lack of loyalty to Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would you steal for Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would you lie for Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would sacrifice your children for Hank?<BR/><BR/>Would questioning Hank be a sign of disloyalty?<BR/><BR/>Would you serve Hank blindly forever as his willing slave?<BR/><BR/>Would you refer to him as your Lord and Master? <BR/><BR/>Would you kiss his ass?<BR/><BR/>You likened Hank's natural reward for loyalty to a company's reward for years of loyal service.<BR/><BR/>Does the word ENRON mean anything to you?<BR/><BR/>Companies offer benefits for the sole purpose of acquiring the most effort possible out of its employees - it is their own interrests that they are concerned with, period.<BR/><BR/>The problem with this "expressed loyalty" is that it is open ended. No matter how loyal you might try to be you'll never be loyal enough.<BR/><BR/>Unless of, course, Hank really doesn't care one way or another about anyone being loyal to him/her/it/them.<BR/><BR/>But then you have to wonder, Who are all of those loyal followers realy following?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80096517049146312182008-06-06T05:19:00.000-04:002008-06-06T05:19:00.000-04:00Jamie- I'm honored to be on your list of "pretty c...Jamie- I'm honored to be on your list of "pretty cool" people. If you get raptured, I'll be down on my knees lickety-split, and we'll soon be in Heaven together, laughing and eating wieners, with buns, relish, onions, and mustard. And drinking beer too.<BR/><BR/>Rachel- I concur with dingodave: not only is your take-off of Hank's Ass not as funny as the original, but it is an instantiation of Poe's Law: I was convinced for quite a while that it was simply another version of the parable, and also aimed at satirizing fundamentalists. Sorry- lame at best.<BR/><BR/>Dingodave: you say<BR/><BR/><I>I once gave myself to Jesus, but now he never calls. :(</I><BR/><BR/>Do you know this great blues song by Greg Brown?<BR/><BR/>Oh Lord, I have made you a place in my heart among the rags and the bones and the dirt.<BR/>There’s piles of lies, and the love gone from her eyes, and old moving boxes full of hurt.<BR/>Pull up a chair by the trouble and care. I got whiskey, you’re welcome to some.<BR/>Oh Lord, I’ve made you a place in my heart, but I don’t reckon you’re gonna come.<BR/><BR/>Tried to fix up the place, I know it’s a disgrace, you get used to it after a while -<BR/>with the flood and the drought and old pals hanging out with their IOU’s and their smiles.<BR/>Bare naked women keep coming in and they dance like you would not believe.<BR/>Oh Lord, I’ve made you a place in my heart, so take a good look - and then leave.<BR/><BR/>Oh Lord, why does the Fall get colder each year? Lord, why can’t I learn to love?<BR/>Lord, if you made me, it’s easy to see that you all make mistakes up above.<BR/>But if I open the door, you’ll know that I’m poor, and my secrets are all that I own.<BR/>Oh Lord, I’ve made you a place in my heart and I hope that you leave it alone.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-87078407189628340782008-06-06T02:51:00.000-04:002008-06-06T02:51:00.000-04:00Thanks for the counter-parable Rachel, but I'm afr...Thanks for the counter-parable Rachel, but I'm afraid that it doesn't hold a candle to the original. It's so chock full of falshoods and fallacies that only a fundamentalist creationist could have written it. <BR/>I'm afraid that it lost me after the very first line. <BR/>"Pulling the wings off flies to try to get evolution moving a little faster"? :0<BR/>It appears that whoever wrote this dismal piece hasn't got the first clue about how evolution actually works, or about a great many other things for that matter. <BR/>Perhaps the author should read his/her own bible sometime.<BR/><BR/>-Fred: "Well no. We don’t serve Hank for the reward. We serve Hank because He has earned our trust and loyalty.”<BR/>WTF? :O<BR/>I can't believe that anyone could seriously even write that line. <BR/>Christianity is ALL ABOUT chasing rewards, and avoiding punishments. If you don't believe me just read these verses.<BR/><BR/>Matt.5<BR/>[12] Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you. <BR/>[46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? <BR/><BR/>Matt.6<BR/>[1] "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. <BR/>[4] so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. <BR/>[6] But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.<BR/><BR/>Matt.10<BR/>[41] He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. <BR/>[42] And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."<BR/><BR/>Mark.9<BR/>[41] For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward. <BR/><BR/>Luke.6<BR/>[23] Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; <BR/>[35] But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; <BR/><BR/>1Cor.3<BR/>[14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. <BR/><BR/>Col.3<BR/>[24] knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ. <BR/><BR/>Heb.10<BR/>[35] Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.<BR/><BR/>Heb.11<BR/>[6] And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. <BR/>[26] He considered abuse suffered for the Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked to the reward. <BR/><BR/>2John.1<BR/>[8] Look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for, but may win a full reward. <BR/><BR/>Rev.11<BR/>[18] The nations raged, but thy wrath came,<BR/>and the time for the dead to be judged,<BR/>for rewarding thy servants, the prophets and saints,<BR/>and those who fear thy name,<BR/><BR/>Romans 2<BR/>[6] For he will render to every man according to his works: <BR/>[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life<BR/><BR/>-Fred: "I’m sorry, but your priorities seem a bit skewed. Remember, if you don't follow Hank he’ll leave you alone…"<BR/><BR/>Luke.12<BR/>[5] But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him! <BR/><BR/>John.15<BR/>[6] If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.<BR/><BR/>Matt.13<BR/>[40] Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. <BR/>[41] The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, <BR/>[42] and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.<BR/><BR/>Matt.18<BR/>[8] And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. <BR/>[9] And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. <BR/><BR/>Being 'thrown into the eternal fire' does not sound like being 'left alone' to me! <BR/><BR/>And I'm afraid that the rest of it is no better, but I don't have the stomach to refute it all at the moment.DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-16602956758365040332008-06-05T21:20:00.000-04:002008-06-05T21:20:00.000-04:00Jamie Steele wrote:"I think the reasons you guys "...Jamie Steele wrote:<BR/>"I think the reasons you guys "walked away" for Christianity is because you never knew Jesus to begin with."<BR/><BR/>I once gave myself to Jesus, but now he never calls. :(DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-73799554282561466362008-06-05T21:17:00.000-04:002008-06-05T21:17:00.000-04:00Thanks DingoDave. That reminds me of a similar par...Thanks DingoDave. That reminds me of a <A HREF="http://www.tektoonics.com/etc/parody/hankwhine.htm" REL="nofollow">similar parable</A>...<BR/><BR/>Whining About Hank<BR/><BR/>This morning as I was picking the wings off of flies to see if I could get evolution moving a little faster, there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Hi! I'm Fred, and this is Wilma."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come express loyalty to Hank with us."<BR/><BR/>Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to express my loyalty to him?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "If you are loyal to Hank, He'll give you the natural reward for loyalty; just like if you work for a company for long time and do well, they rightly reward you. And if you aren't, He won’t give you any rewards, but He will just leave you on your own to your own shame.”<BR/><BR/>Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a reward for loyalty, but He can't until you are loyal to him."<BR/><BR/>Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "What do you mean, ‘that doesn’t make any sense’? Do you think these houses built themselves? Don’t you think you should be thankful to the person who built it and let you live here?”<BR/><BR/>Me: "Well no, I think these houses just sort of flew together in a storm one day."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "I can see why this doesn’t make sense to you then."<BR/><BR/>Me: "Do you show loyalty to this ‘Hank’ often?"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "Oh yes, all the time..."<BR/><BR/>Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Well no. We don’t serve Hank for the reward. We serve Hank because He has earned our trust and loyalty.”<BR/><BR/>Me: "Huh? But I wanted money."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "I suppose if you think these houses came out of nowhere, that’s to be expected."<BR/><BR/>Me: "Well gosh. It sounds like there’s really nothing in it for me. Do you know anyone who was loyal to Hank, left town, and got the rewards?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Does it really matter? The rewards are not the issue; it is that Hank is a real person who did real things like build your house.”<BR/><BR/>Me: "Yeah, but I want money, man. Have you seen the price of beer lately?”<BR/><BR/>Fred: "I’m sorry, but your priorities seem a bit skewed. Remember, if you don't follow Hank he’ll leave you alone…but you won’t be able to achieve your fullest potential that Hank intends. He’ll leave to spend the rest of your existence in boredom and disgrace.”<BR/><BR/>Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: “What makes you think you’d hear any different? Aren’t you just fudging to create a problem?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "Then how do you show loyalty to Hank if you don’t see him?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "We serve Him and His interests. Don’t tell me you need to see and talk to a person to work for them. Have you ever seen the President of this country?” <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Me: "Well, no, but --"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "We learned about Hank by the record of what He did in history. The records taught us all about Hank and why we should be loyal to Him – because of all that He did, and because He is who He is."<BR/><BR/>Me: "Huh. And you just took these records at their word when they said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to be loyal to him, and that Hank did all this stuff?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "No, we checked out the validity of the record and what it said, and compared it to other records. One of Hank’s officers, Karl, wrote down some of it; there were others, too, but here's a copy of what Karl wrote; see for yourself."<BR/><BR/>From the Desk of Karl<BR/>Be loyal to Hank for He has earned your loyalty by providing you with life and all you have. <BR/>Use alcohol in moderation. <BR/>Pursue righteousness. Don’t misuse this as an excuse to define “righteousness” in your own image.<BR/>Eat right. <BR/>Hank dictated this list Himself. <BR/>The moon is white and shining.<BR/>Everything Hank says is right. <BR/>Wash your hands after going to the bathroom. <BR/>Don't use alcohol if it becomes too strong.<BR/>Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments. <BR/>Be loyal to Hank or He'll leave you to your own devices. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "What’s your point?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "So what? When Karl wrote this 95% of people in this town couldn’t read anyway. Most communication was by dictation. Do you have a problem with that? Why not just address the epistemic validity of what is written?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."<BR/><BR/>Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist hurts of people just because they're different?"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "So you think that Hank ought to give rewards to ungrateful people?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "So prove it. We did our research and we found that all that Karl wrote is sound.”<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is white and shining,' which is just plain wrong."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "See, you haven’t done your homework at all. 2 and 9 were both written before alcohol was strong enough to knock your socks off. As far as 6 goes, I suppose you don’t use the word ‘sunset’ in your vocabulary.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon reflects light, not that it shines..."<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "They’ve also established that the sun doesn’t ‘set’. So what is the problem, exactly? Do you have a problem with phenomenological language?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "I'm not really an expert. I don’t even know what that word means."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Obviously not.”<BR/> <BR/>Me: "Item 7 is a real trip, though.”<BR/><BR/>Wilma: "Why?”<BR/><BR/>Me: "You can use it to say Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Well, sorry to disappoint you, but we did check out the claims and as far as we have found, item 7 is valid. If you think it isn’t you need to explain why.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Me: "Maybe later. I need a beer. What's the deal with wieners?"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: She rolls her eyes.<BR/><BR/>Fred: "Oh, yes., Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It was written at a time when there were serious problems with condiments being poisoned by poor processing methods, so Hank included a ban on condiments. Buns are required because when this was written, there were no napkins, and people got the grease from the wieners on their fingers and it caused a lot of accidents. These days since we have napkins and better sanitation, we don’t worry about that law.”<BR/><BR/>Me: "What if I didn't have a bun?"<BR/><BR/>Fred: "What kind of silly question is that? I told you why the bun was needed. Are you so selfish that you’d risk hurting people just so you don’t have to put up with a bun?"<BR/><BR/>Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"<BR/><BR/>Wilma: “Didn’t you hear a word he said? Relish and mustard at the time this was written was deadly.”<BR/><BR/>Me: (I stick my fingers in her ears.)"I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."<BR/><BR/>Fred: "I can see we’re wasting our time with someone who lives in his own little world.”<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>With this, Fred escorted Wilma to their waiting car, and sped off. I went back inside for a beer.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990773174601680586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-43166652552294592752008-06-05T21:10:00.000-04:002008-06-05T21:10:00.000-04:00Harry,I hope you are right about Hell but I believ...Harry,<BR/><BR/>I hope you are right about Hell but I believe your theology is a bit flawed.<BR/><BR/>Who really cares what hell is like.<BR/><BR/>I am glad about heaven.<BR/><BR/>Hope to see you there Harry, John, Zilch...etc....<BR/><BR/>You guys seem pretty cool anyway.Jamie Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13186614354346762218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37918103180268919552008-06-05T20:32:00.000-04:002008-06-05T20:32:00.000-04:00I hardly heard of christadelphianism and had to lo...I hardly heard of christadelphianism and had to look it up. There is some things I found if you are all interested:<BR/><BR/>No, Christadelphianism is not Christian. Like all cults, Christadelphianism denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity: Jesus is God, the physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. In this case, it is the deity of Christ and salvation by grace through faith that are the problems with this group.<BR/><BR/>Of primary importance is what the Christadelphians say about Jesus. They deny He is divine in nature. According to John 1:1,14, John 8:58 (with Exodus 3:14), and Col. 2:9, Jesus is God.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, Jesus said in John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins." Also, John the Apostle said in 1 John 4:2-4, "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." You can see that denying that Jesus has come in the flesh (that He is God in flesh per John 1:1,14) is the spirit of antichrist.<BR/><BR/>Since we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9), it is crucial to have the proper object of faith. All Satan has to do is to get someone to believe in a false Jesus, and the person is lost (Matt. 24:24). A false Jesus cannot save, and only the true Jesus reveals the true God (John 14:6; Luke 10:22; John 17:3). Since Jesus is actually God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8), it follows that those who deny His divine nature -- and ascribe a sinful one to Him as the Christadelphians do -- cannot have the true Jesus and are, therefore, serving a false God.<BR/>The Christadelphians, by having a Jesus who has a sin nature, cannot have a proper sacrifice by which their sins are atoned for. According to the Old Testament, the sacrifice for sins had to be without blemish (Deut. 17:1). Having a sin nature would definitely be a blemish which would invalidate the sacrifice.<BR/><BR/>Some questions for the Christadelphians: If Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature, then isn't that a defect? If Jesus' sinful nature is not a defect, then what would you call it? If Jesus sinful nature is a defect, then doesn't that mean His sacrifice is insufficient? If you state that being obedient is what makes a person "unblemished," then why are we damned by nature (Eph. 2:3) if it is only our sinful deeds that condemn us?<BR/><BR/>Christadelphians believe that Jesus had to die in order to save himself. Yet the Christadelphians also maintain that Jesus was without blemish or defect. If this is so, why would Jesus need to save Himself if He had no sin? If Jesus needed to save Himself, then that means He was not without defect. If that is the case, then how can he be a pure and unblemished sacrifice?<BR/><BR/>The Christadelphian religion is a false religion. It is definitely not Christian. This is not to say that there are not decent people who intend to serve God honestly and truthfully. But sincerity does not bridge the gap between God and man. Only the blood of the real Jesus does that, not a false Christ with a sin nature who himself needed salvation.<BR/><BR/>Later,<BR/>DanD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34158033251137238662008-06-05T18:31:00.000-04:002008-06-05T18:31:00.000-04:00Thanks for your final comment and honest views on ...Thanks for your final comment and honest views on theology.<BR/><BR/>However, there is another Christian that has been posting here for about a year who post under the name “Jason”. Jason is a VERY dedicated Christian who, as a Christadelphian<BR/><BR/><BR/>Jason: “Harry, you’re an atheist. You’ve lost the right to legitimately instruct Christians on Bible doctrine. The lake of fire is nothing more then the “second death”. Scripture never says everyone has eternal life – in fact, Scripture says people die and when they’re dead, they know nothing (Ecc 9:5). If you’d like to start up a topic discussing what the Bible teaches about the death state, I’d be more then happy to continue this discussion.”… <BR/><BR/>“Again, if you’d like to start up a topic discussing what the Bible teaches about the death state, I’d be more then happy to continue this discussion.”<BR/><BR/>“Hi Harry, perhaps you missed it but as I said in my last post, start up a new topic on Enoch and Elijah and I’ll be happy to walk you through the reasons why they’re both dead and buried.”<BR/><BR/>Dan and Jamie, here is how Jason (as a Christadelphian) fells about your doctrine of eternal punishment:<BR/>“Apostate Christendom often associates 'hell' with the idea of fire and torment. This is in sharp contrast to Bible teaching about hell (the grave). "Like sheep they are laid in the grave (hell); death shall feed on them" (Ps. 49:14) implies that the grave is a place of peaceful oblivion. Despite Christ's soul, or body, being in hell for three days, it did not suffer corruption (Acts 2:31). This would have been impossible if hell were a place of fire. Eze. 32:26-30 gives a picture of the mighty warriors of the nations around, lying at peace in their graves: "The mighty that are fallen (in battle)...which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads...they shall lie...with them that go down to the pit". This refers to the custom of burying warriors with their weapons, and resting the head of the corpse upon its sword. Yet this is a description of "hell" - the grave. These mighty men lying still in hell (i.e. their graves), hardly supports the idea that hell is a place of fire. Physical things (e.g. swords) go to the same "hell" as people, showing that hell is not an arena of spiritual torment. Thus Peter told a wicked man, "Thy money perish with thee"(Acts 8:20).”<BR/>So, according to Jason, my future is simply a grave. If you disagree, he can prove it to you both.<BR/><BR/>I maybe an atheist, but both of you are teaching and preaching “Apostate Christendom”!!<BR/>There will be no eternal fire / punishment for me! Thanks, Jason! <BR/>Regards,<BR/>HarryHarry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-49654735178080114242008-06-05T17:57:00.000-04:002008-06-05T17:57:00.000-04:00Harry wrote:"If I told you I had 3 million dollars...Harry wrote:<BR/>"If I told you I had 3 million dollars in a saving account at a local bank and all this would be yours one day if you simply love me and did what I asked you to do. Now, I won’t ask much, just work around my house, buy me some groceries and drive me places."<BR/><BR/>That reminds me of the parable <BR/><BR/> "Kissing Hank's Ass"<BR/><BR/>This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first: <BR/><BR/>"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary." <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?" <BR/><BR/>John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you." <BR/><BR/>Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?" <BR/><BR/>John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass." <BR/><BR/>Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..." <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?" <BR/><BR/>Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..." <BR/><BR/>John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..." <BR/><BR/>Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?" <BR/><BR/>John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town." <BR/><BR/>Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit out of you." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?" <BR/><BR/>John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?" <BR/><BR/>John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it." <BR/><BR/>Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise; maybe you'll win a small lotto; maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street." <BR/><BR/>Me: "What's that got to do with Hank? <BR/><BR/>John: "Hank has certain<BR/>connections.'" <BR/><BR/>Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game." <BR/><BR/>John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..." <BR/><BR/>Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?" <BR/><BR/>John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Who's Karl?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times." <BR/><BR/>Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?" <BR/><BR/>John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself." <BR/><BR/>John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed: <BR/><BR/>1-Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town. <BR/>2-Use alcohol in moderation. <BR/>3-Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you. <BR/>4-Eat right. <BR/>5-Hank dictated this list himself. <BR/>6-The moon is made of green cheese. <BR/>7-Everything Hank says is right. <BR/>8-Wash your hands after going to the bathroom. <BR/>9-Don't drink. <BR/>10-Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments. <BR/>11-Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you. <BR/><BR/>Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead." <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper." <BR/><BR/>Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting." <BR/><BR/>John: "Of course, Hank dictated it." <BR/><BR/>Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people." <BR/><BR/>Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right." <BR/><BR/>Me: "How do you figure that?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Item 7 says Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!" <BR/><BR/>Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up." <BR/><BR/>John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too." <BR/><BR/>Me: "But #9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with #2. And #6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong." <BR/><BR/>John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2; 9 just clarifies 2. As to 6, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure." <BR/><BR/>Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..." <BR/><BR/>Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese." <BR/><BR/>Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese." <BR/><BR/>John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!" <BR/><BR/>Me: "We do?" <BR/><BR/>Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so." <BR/><BR/>Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'" <BR/><BR/>John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking." <BR/><BR/>Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?" <BR/><BR/>Mary blushes. John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong." <BR/><BR/>Me: "What if I don't have a bun?" <BR/><BR/>John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong." <BR/><BR/>Me: "No relish? No Mustard?" <BR/><BR/>Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!" <BR/><BR/>Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?" <BR/><BR/>Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la." <BR/><BR/>John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..." <BR/><BR/>Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time." <BR/><BR/>Mary faints. John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you where one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater." <BR/><BR/>With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.<BR/><BR/>-AUTHOR Jim Huber.DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-86313147829008141272008-06-05T16:37:00.000-04:002008-06-05T16:37:00.000-04:00Harry,That sure is a strange way of looking at thi...Harry,<BR/><BR/>That sure is a strange way of looking at things. I am forced to concede and admit you are completely right, I fully admit now that there is no God in your life. I can in good conscience say that your blood is NOT on my hands and I will stop helping you understand. I still feel a somewhat connection and believe that this conversation happened for a good purpose. Who knows maybe in twenty years you will be convincing me to stay the course and God still loves me. If you look back at everything said I am sure with logical reasoning you will see that there was truth to what was said to you. I just hope you understand that I gave every effort to help you out of that fire and that you conscientiously chose to burn. Please don't hold anything against me for trying hard and am reluctantly giving up. This conversation was very edifying and hope our souls touched each other in some way. I must admit this is not the first time after a truly enlightening conversation and I opened myself up in a real connection with an atheist and they resort to illogical reasoning and just falls back to badmouthing God. You are not rare or unique; I meet your type everywhere. My actual good friend from the military just the other day said to me "If you don't like my views and beliefs than I think maybe we should end our friendship right here right now. " Now this was one of the close ones who 15 years ago wanted me to be his first child's god parent. I must say Harry McCall your words are burned into my memories and I will one day have answers for reasons why these situations and conversations took place. There is a price to pay in being a Christian this is true. It means I have to watch people I meet, like you, turn from God and chose to burn in hell forever, please at least say hi to my mom for me. I am living proof that man cannot convert people and that it takes a true miracle from God to change the hearts of the wicked. Who's next?<BR/><BR/>Sigh,<BR/>DanD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-44230203245990162072008-06-05T15:14:00.000-04:002008-06-05T15:14:00.000-04:00“Based on my experiences in Christianity, I would ...“Based on my experiences in Christianity, I would trust a used car salesman more than the promises of the Bible.”<BR/><BR/>Jamie Steele: “Harry i have a car for sale.”<BR/><BR/>Lets see; on a scale of 1 – 10 with 10 being excellent: Biblical promises 2, used car salesman 4. <BR/>Sorry, just being honest.<BR/><BR/>Jamie, my feeling is this and this is why I post here at DC. If, after death, Jesus Christ will show me nor any non-Christian NO piety, but cast all other religions, along with agnostics and atheists into hell and, later the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment, then why should I show either the Bible, God, or Christ piety now. <BR/><BR/>No Quarters Requested. No Quarters Granted!<BR/><BR/>Here is an earlier post:<BR/> <BR/>Subject: Thinking About Theology Again.<BR/>(Posted at DC. Sept. 7, 2006)<BR/><BR/>As a Christian I heard John 3:16 run into the ground about how God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son to die for us. Even Jesus said we should call him "Father" ...a father who lovingly lives in heaven (but who also has a sinister method of watching us). A loving father who (like the Gospel story of the loving Sheppard) will leave the 99 sheep and hunt for the single lost one. Of course, this only lasts with God while we are alive. After our death, our loving Heavenly Father soon morphs, form a kind Dr. Jekyll, into a sadistic Mr. Hide (or maybe more like the psychotic cruel mother who would go from a very loving mother to a evil parent which attacked her own child in the movie of the multi-personality character: Sybil ). <BR/><BR/>Thus, the old question posed by young Christians and non believer: If God is a God of love, than why does He send a person to Hell? Well, this question is understood about a soul after death and also about the "Mr. Hide" character of God: "You're dead and now your ass is mine!" But the preacher replies: God does not send anyone to Hell. We send ourselves. Yea, right! Just like Sybil made her psychotic mother beat and torture her. <BR/><BR/> Often, confused parents ask their minister: Where was God when to my child died? Preacher: The same place He was when His son died. Fact: God was in the comforts of heaven enjoying every second of it! This is the same defense used by many parents who beat and torture their children (often to death) is that this is simply a loving form of discipline of which the child asked for. Remember, most all the Ten Commandments had a death penalty if broken to be enforced by the religious leaders who were God's own mouth on earth.<BR/><BR/>If the statement is true that God hates the sin, but loves the sinner, than we truly have an example of the "Pot calling the kettle black", but in this case the pot is even blacker. A god who loves mass slaughter of whole families in the Hebrew Bible is truly a sick psychotic god who blames the victims as a way to justify the horrific gore He puts them though. And this in the light that He did it braking most all His very own Ten Commandments!<BR/><BR/>From what St. Paul writes in the New Testament, I would be lead to think that after death the Christian comes into the presents of a God who quickly begins His morphing into a sadistic Mr. Hide character. Like the living person in movies who is confronted by the vampire, but who stops the attack by holding out a cross or uses Holy Water to ward off the attack, Christians must stand before a morphed God and use the blood of Jesus to compel God to draw back from his evil judgment and torture (remember at judgment the victim is blamed for “sin” and that God thinks we deserve eternal punishment) and we “sinners” must use the blood of Jesus to drive Him into submission...to get to some heaven where we will have to live with the this psychotic nut forever. Hey, it's like in the movie The Exorcist, as the once loving, but now psychotic God tries to attack the saved individual form His Great White Throne Judgment Seat, the Christian states: The blood of Christ compel thee! In horror, God cursing and screaming must draw back.<BR/><BR/>Conclusion:<BR/>I'm sitting here at my keyboard thinking about my past life as a Christian: "How did I ever believe this crap for 45 years!" However, (and remember) from a psychotic God's prospective: I was the victim; I asked for it! <BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Jamie and Dan, as individuals, you two seem like great people and thank you for you kind comments.<BR/><BR/>But as for as Jesusv is concerned, if he and you two were hanging by your hands before dropping to your deaths at the bottom of a 200 foot cliff, I would pull you to safety the step on Jesus’ fingers to cause him to fall to his death (a work of atonement).<BR/><BR/>Since Christ (by Christian theology) will (in the future) sentence me to eternity to burn in the Lake of Fire, I have sentenced him in the here and now (in the present tense) to a theological life of logical Hell.<BR/><BR/> Regards,<BR/> HarryHarry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42454164783975791802008-06-05T13:32:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:32:00.000-04:00Harry,I guess the difference between us is that I ...Harry,<BR/><BR/>I guess the difference between us is that I don't care about the 3 million dollars and will love you no matter what.<BR/><BR/>In real life: I told my own dad that I didn't want his money ever, just so he doesn't think that I love him FOR his money. I told him I would donate everything he gives me. He was using the will as a weapon to my brother and it disgusted me.<BR/><BR/>Harry whether you promise me 3 million or not, I will love you always because you were there for me as a friend and you have taken that bullet for me already in Hanoi. You saved my life and I am so very grateful. You are my brother that loved me enough to try to save me and that is all I needed for you to get my undying loyalty until the bitter end. In fact you didn't even have to do that to get my loyalty because you are just a great person. Spit on me, call me names, punch me but I still love you. (thought's of Job just popped into my head) I don't EXPECT anything from you no matter what is promised to me. I forgive you. I love you, thank you. You are the representation of what true friendship is. {and scene}<BR/><BR/>Harry if a friend named Dan that gave you a huge gift out of his kindness (lets say a car) and then, because he gave you that gift, feels entitled to get something from you. He wants something you have and feels like you should give it to him, after all he gave you something. He feels you owe him now. Dan calls you daily nagging you about the thing he wants. Over time he starts to get bitter because you should treat him the same as he treated you. Dan starts talking bad about you at work and is relentless in complaining about what kind of friend you are to everyone and is bitter until he dies. That car he gave you really starts to lose value quickly doesn't it? My question to you is did Dan really love you? Was Dan a good friend?<BR/><BR/>In that situation Harry, you are Dan and God is Harry. One would wonder if Dan give you a gift only to 'get' something from you. The car could represent anything you have done such as Columbia Theological Seminary in Atlanta, Ga or Bob Jones University.<BR/><BR/>I hope you understand something Harry. I love you, bro. I got your back don't worry about my friendship. I am always here for you anytime you need me. Abuse my kindness if you wish, it will not change how I feel about you. I will always remember the moment when I was in that trench in Hanoi, scared out of my mind, and you ran in and grabbed me from death. You were so very brave to take on the enemy without fear. You made me want to be a better man by being you and for that I am grateful and consider it an honor to know you. Harry you can always <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kTrkpPXYsM" REL="nofollow">lean on me</A> if you need a friend. Thank you Harry...Jesus.<BR/><BR/>With love,<BR/>DanD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-50718857155012266652008-06-05T11:35:00.000-04:002008-06-05T11:35:00.000-04:00Based on my experiences in Christianity, I would t...Based on my experiences in Christianity, I would trust a used car salesman more than the promises of the Bible.<BR/><BR/>Harry i have a car for sale.<BR/><BR/>Also Harry the true test of authentic faith is not learning theology at a seminary or witnessing.<BR/>The true test of authehtic faith is perseverance. <BR/><BR/>Jesus said "Those who endure to the end will be saved."<BR/><BR/>also <BR/>Peter said this "10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if<BR/>you do these things, you will never fall,<BR/><BR/>Jude 24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence<BR/>without fault and with great joy--<BR/><BR/>Paul said "23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit,<BR/>soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.<BR/>24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.<BR/><BR/>3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has<BR/>caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the<BR/>dead,<BR/><BR/><BR/>4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in<BR/>heaven for you,<BR/>5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the<BR/>last time.<BR/><BR/>See Harry, what God starts He finishes. <BR/>It may be that God didn't start your salvation.<BR/>And by your own admition He didn't<BR/><BR/>He did mine. I am praying for you.Jamie Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13186614354346762218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-31202988933302744542008-06-05T10:34:00.000-04:002008-06-05T10:34:00.000-04:00Dan, I appreciate your concern, but for me, but th...Dan, I appreciate your concern, but for me, but the Christian faith is equal to what theology labels “sin”; it “misses the mark”. <BR/><BR/>The only way Christianity can function is by passing ALL the blame on to the “sinner”, and claiming he just did not / needs to try a little harder to reap God’s rewards. <BR/><BR/>We humans live in a society in the United States where we are governed by “Limon Laws”, “Warranties”, and “Contracts” because verbal agreements and faith are not worth much in a court of law. Dan, even ancient Israel had a contract with God / Yahweh called a “Covenant” where Yahweh up held his end of the deal if Israel up held theirs. In Christianity, it’s totally trust now for a hopeful one day reward…Heaven.<BR/><BR/>If I told you I had 3 million dollars in a saving account at a local bank and all this would be yours one day if you simply love me and did what I asked you to do. Now, I won’t ask much, just work around my house, buy me some groceries and drive me places.<BR/><BR/>Now, Dan, please understand this is not you working to EARN my 3 million dollars, but simply you showing your love for me and me for your by my wonderful 3 million dollars I have laid up for you.<BR/><BR/>However, while you are doing all the things I asked of you to prove your love for me, you and your family fall on hard times. You can not pay your bills. What few items you have are reprocessed to pay some bills. Your power is cut off. Your family falls apart from finical pressure. Even though I have 3 million dollars in the bank, I never once pay any of your bills nor help you in anyway because, Dan, I'm there for you and your family but I’m simply “testing you and your faith”. Just hang in there buddy! The 3 million is yours as soon as I’m gone.<BR/><BR/>If you took all this on “faith” and waited on “salvation” / 3 million dollars after I was dead and NEVER ONCE went to the bank, NEVER ONCE requested a legal contract be drawn up / will; you would be flat out stupid! But this is exactly how you Christians think. <BR/><BR/>My life is as rich as your's, but I know there is no 3 million dollars waiting on me (Heaven). I went to the bank and, friend, it just an’t there! Plus, faith will never stand up in court.<BR/><BR/>Based on my experiences in Christianity, I would trust a used car salesman more than the promises of the Bible.<BR/><BR/>Another point that you have stated on faith which is in error: “The second man is given a parachute, but listen to what he's told. He's told to put it on because at any moment he'd be jumping 25,000 feet out of the plane.”<BR/><BR/>Do you remember D.B. Cooper (the man who jumped out of a plane back in the 70’s with millions of dollars at about the same altitude hoping, that is, having faith that his parachute would save his life with the money)? His faith was wrong and it cost him his life. No, they never found his body, but at the height he jumped from, the lack of oxygen, and the extreme cold, the facts showed he could not have lived. Parts of money still washed up in the lakes and rivers in the northern part of the country a decade after the event.<BR/><BR/>Dan, you are walking an endless tight rope called “The Christian faith” without a net. Good Luck!<BR/><BR/> Regards, HarryHarry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-68356990231134699832008-06-05T10:21:00.000-04:002008-06-05T10:21:00.000-04:00Dan "The Bible is chalk full of hypocrisy examples...Dan "The Bible is chalk full of hypocrisy examples you are in good company because God hates it also."<BR/><BR/>I can understand the hypocrisy, I may not like it either....but I understand it. What I cannot understand is if God's wants everyone to be saved, and His existence cannot definitively be proven through classical apologetics or through empirical observation and experimentation and the only viable method given unto man whereby he can understand who God is and what He demands of us is the revelation of "Holy scripture" why would He allow it to contain so many inconsistencies and contradictions. <BR/>What exactly separates it from any other "revelation" given to all the other religions on the planet. <BR/><BR/>I had someone not long ago attempt to explain why he believed in inerrancy. In the final analysis his definition wasn't that the bible did not contain errors, it was that even with the errors it was "sufficient" for salvation. It must be nice to be able to change the meaning and definition of a word just so it will fit into your worldview.<BR/><BR/>If scripture is the final authority of faith and practice for the believer, the errors and inconsistencies found therein does not bode well for God's ability to superintend the revelation of His word and will.leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16371409643400358786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91990425270998318492008-06-05T02:50:00.000-04:002008-06-05T02:50:00.000-04:00Harry: "I realized that I never knew a human that ...Harry: <B>"I realized that I never knew a human that lived a Christian life of holiness"</B><BR/><BR/>...there is none good but one, that is, God.<BR/><BR/><B>"I have always simply been a good secular person."</B><BR/><BR/>...there is none good but one, that is, God.<BR/><BR/>The Bible is chalk full of hypocrisy examples you are in good company because God hates it also.<BR/><BR/><B>"we would witness the Gospel every week"</B> and to think all those people that you assisted in getting saved will be thanking you from heaven, but will they be able to meet you? <BR/><BR/><B>"You may claim I never knew Jesus and I was never really saved, but I went though a very dark time of my life where I was totally depressed and wondered for a year in sock not really wanting to live anymore."</B> Now that doesn't sound like fruit of the spirit, something is askew.<BR/><BR/>Fruit of the Spirit - An ever-growing capacity of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self control in the life of the believer.<BR/><BR/>1Peter 1:8 "Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:" <BR/><BR/><B>"I spent 6 years in and thousands of dollars at Christian colleges, universities and seminaries. I was licensed to preach and preached several revivals at different churches and now you tell me I never knew Christ!!!"</B><BR/><BR/>Yea but have you put Jesus on like a parachute?<BR/><BR/>"Two men are seated in a plane. The first is given a parachute and told to put is on as it would improve his flight. He's a little skeptical at first because he can't see how wearing a parachute in a plane could possibly improve the flight. After a time he decides to experiment and see if the claim is true. As he puts it on he notices the weight of it upon his shoulders and he finds that he has difficulty in sitting upright. However, he consoles himself with the fact that he was told the parachute would improve the flight. So, he decides to give the thing a little time. As he waits he notices that some of the other passengers are laughing at him, because he's wearing a parachute in a plane. He begins to feel somewhat humiliated. As they begin to point and laugh at him and he can stand it no longer, he slinks in his seat, unstraps the parachute, and throws it to the floor. Disillusionment and bitterness fill his heart, because, as far as he was concerned, he was told an outright lie.<BR/> <BR/>The second man is given a parachute, but listen to what he's told. He's told to put it on because at any moment he'd be jumping 25,000 feet out of the plane. He gratefully puts the parachute on; he doesn't notice the weight of it upon his shoulders, nor that he can't sit upright. His mind is consumed with the thought of what would happen to him if he jumped without that parachute.<BR/> <BR/>Let's analyze the motive and the result of each passenger's experience. The first man's motive for putting the parachute on was solely to improve his flight. The result of his experience was that he was humiliated by the passengers; he was disillusioned and somewhat embittered against those who gave him the parachute. As far as he's concerned it'll be a long time before anyone gets one of those things on his back again. The second man put the parachute on solely to escape the jump to come, and because of his knowledge of what would happen to him without it, he has a deep-rooted joy and peace in his heart knowing that he's saved from sure death. This knowledge gives him the ability to withstand the mockery of the other passengers. His attitude towards those who gave him the parachute is one of heart-felt gratitude.<BR/> <BR/>Now listen to what the modern gospel says. It says, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ. He'll give you love, joy, peace, fulfillment, and lasting happiness." In other words, "Jesus will improve your flight." So the sinner responds, and in an experimental fashion, puts on the Savior to see if the claims are true. And what does he get? The promised temptation, tribulation, and persecution. The other passengers mock him. So what does he do? He takes off the Lord Jesus Christ, he's offended for the word's sake (Mark 4:17), he's disillusioned and somewhat embittered, and quite rightly so. He was promised peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness, and all he got were trials and humiliation. His bitterness is directed toward those who gave him the so-called "good news". His latter end becomes worse than the first: another inoculated and bitter backslider."(Hell's Best Kept Secret)<BR/><BR/>I am just sad when I read your responses. I want to reach out and give you a hug telling you everything is going to be alright. But I can't, it's not going to be alright for you. You allowed the devil to talk to you like Eve did and Satan got into your ear. There is absolutely nothing I can say or do that will change your mind. God is the only one that can help you at this point. OK you are set in your ways now, I get it! I am the die hard optimist though. Please for your sake just one last time for your life's sake. Tonight get down on your knees (like proposing) humble yourself and ask God to help you with your struggles. Give God just one more chance to save your soul. Beg him to manifest himself to you, to cure that disease of doubt. I said that doubt was the opposite of faith but I was wrong.<BR/><BR/>I saw something the other day that shook me hard. It said: The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. I am not sure who the quote was from but the movie was <A HREF="http://www.beyondthegates-movie.com/main.html" REL="nofollow">beyond the gates</A> a must see!<BR/><BR/>On this side of the fence the is an offer of hope and salvation just for the asking. Come over for a barbecue, you are always welcome. What do you have to lose that you haven't lost already. Give God a chance to save you as he saved me.<BR/><BR/>I should have been dead at 17 and four more times after that. Why did He save me? In August I will be 40 with my 4th child in my arms and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I was spared, but I am so grateful. I am sure glad He is in charge. <BR/><BR/>Take care of yourself,<BR/>DanD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-41713260013750211502008-06-04T23:57:00.000-04:002008-06-04T23:57:00.000-04:00Dan:You're a funny guy. I really, truly do wish y...Dan:<BR/><BR/>You're a funny guy. I really, truly do wish you and yours the best, and should it give you the solace and peace you desire (as it apparently does), I wish you the best with your faith. Can't conscience it myself, of course. We all must live within the life we have created. <BR/><BR/>Harry:<BR/><BR/>I can relate to the alcoholism in the family, even to my own (also mom and pop, probably brother and older sister as well). We are all in the soup in one way or another, it's what we do with it in the end that matters (to my way of thinking). Seems like you have done very well indeed. Peace to you and your family and thanks for all of your interesting and engaging posts.Bloviatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214282017266183128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62492549207586316992008-06-04T19:06:00.000-04:002008-06-04T19:06:00.000-04:00Thanks for your concern Dan Marvin, but any boosti...Thanks for your concern Dan Marvin, but any boosting I did was to prove that without God and the Bible, an atheist will not go wild and steal, rape, murder, lie and live a debauched life style.<BR/><BR/>I now realize I realized that I never knew a human that lived a Christian life of holiness and piousness. One pastor at our Lutheran church cussed and had the youth crying at interchurch sports; he even swung a fist at a 14 year old boy and came within inches of hitting him while he cussed him. The next pastor had to leave because of alcoholism.<BR/><BR/>I left and join a independent fundamental Baptist church where one pastor ran off with the church secretary (only to return a month latter broke and asking God and his wife for forgiveness). The next pastor’s wife left him and their 6 children and moved in with a boy friend. <BR/><BR/>I was licensed to preach by the above Baptist church, but was asked to leave when I told the Sunday school class that Peter and Paul did not use the King James Bible (I pointed out the date 1611 AD and the fact it’s in English)…big mistake at a church that worships God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, and God the King James Bible.<BR/><BR/>I am convinced that, unless one attends a liberal church, the Christian pious life style as preached by conservative churches is an illusion.<BR/><BR/>When I attended Columbia Theological Seminary in Atlanta, Ga., one professor committed suicide in his office; the head of the Atlanta Clinical Pastoral Education Association had to go out on Sabbatical due to alcoholism. My professor (PhD Princeton University) for Pastoral Counseling would come to our small group seminar reeking with alcohol and told the class that “Some of the best counseling I have ever had is when my wife hauls off and slaps my face.” And here I was from an alcoholic home where my parents often beat the hell out of each other several times monthly.<BR/><BR/>As for as the Fundamentalist school, Bob Jones University goes, pull up B.J.U. under You-tube and watch what these Christian students are doing…wild!<BR/><BR/>As I look back and to where I am now, I have always simply been a good secular person. <BR/><BR/>As for as Christianity goes, when I was in it, we would witness the Gospel every week at Clemson University until my group caused the student body to have the University to ban any Christian room to room witnessing.<BR/><BR/>In the end and looking back (when I truly believed Christianity was true and had all the answers) I felt like I had married the most beautiful, kind and loving wife a man could EVER hope to have and, in preaching the Gospel, I wanted every “sinner” to have the loving relationship I had. But, in light of the above, plus even more I have not told you, I felt like I had come home early one day from work carrying roses for my wonderful loving wife only to find her in my bed with the plumber engage in wild sex! <BR/><BR/>You may claim I never knew Jesus and I was never really saved, but I went though a very dark time of my life where I was totally depressed and wondered for a year in sock not really wanting to live anymore.<BR/><BR/>Dan, look at my blog profile (click on my name). I spent 6 years in and thousands of dollars at Christian colleges, universities and seminaries. I was licensed to preach and preached several revivals at different churches and now you tell me I never knew Christ!!!<BR/><BR/>Dan, I will leave you with this, your theology of salvation is not, nor was not my life; it’s your theology based only on your experiences in your life and your sectarian reading of the Bible. You can only speak for yourself. <BR/><BR/> Regards,<BR/> HarryHarry H. McCallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08974655354593831851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-83132084124698890612008-06-04T13:28:00.000-04:002008-06-04T13:28:00.000-04:00Bloviator,Thanks for the concern but I am in very ...Bloviator,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the concern but I am in very <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzhd2Kd5soU" REL="nofollow">good hands</A>. I believe "losing salvation" is an oxymoron. Besides you will not hear me say the word apostasy, aww french toast I just did, darn you BloviatorrrrrrD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.com