tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post3943640129034274509..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Accuracy In Detecting The Spiritual Realm Using "Triangulation"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-63298245065183148342009-01-20T11:40:00.000-05:002009-01-20T11:40:00.000-05:00I find the experience of the Holy Spirit credible ...<B><BR/>I find the experience of the Holy Spirit credible because I know what it is like to apprehend my own self, and the experience of the Spirit is of that same nature. The Spirit does not come to me as an outside experience. It is within me, closer to me than I am to myself. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>Exactly what one would expect if it was merely the fruit of your own imagination.David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37971663519777882972009-01-20T11:36:00.000-05:002009-01-20T11:36:00.000-05:00A very decent and fair question. Let me explain wh...<B><BR/>A very decent and fair question. Let me explain why I think it's impossible to show or demonstrate to your satisfaction. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>I'm not interested in you demonstrating it to MY satisfaction. I'd like to hear why YOU are satisfied that you are in situation 1: that of having a properly functioning religious awareness, rather than situation 2: mistakenly imagining that you have a properly functioning religious awareness.<BR/><BR/>Surely you believe many people practicing other religions are in situation 2. What reason do you have for thinking you aren't in the same situation as they?David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-85371948237489720622009-01-20T10:55:00.000-05:002009-01-20T10:55:00.000-05:00Hi JL,I'm preparing my rebuttal to you, and I'm go...Hi JL,<BR/>I'm preparing my rebuttal to you, and I'm going to start out with how surprised I am that you seem so bitter. <BR/><BR/>and how you focused on general atheistic arguments without saying why IDQ design flaws in scripture don't amount to poor quality information.<BR/><BR/>Do you realize that it is irrelevant what the origin of scripture is? It only matters if its quality information or not. So most of your article is irrelevant as well.<BR/><BR/>really, "lee randolph has no clothes"? <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/01/lee-randolph-has-no-clothes.html" REL="nofollow">http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/01/lee-randolph-has-no-clothes.html</A>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-12150947267361035532009-01-20T09:40:00.000-05:002009-01-20T09:40:00.000-05:00Holy straw man batman! hey my silly method that re...Holy straw man batman! hey my silly method that religious people don't use doesn't work, so that disproves religion!Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-92048989829755457242009-01-20T04:39:00.000-05:002009-01-20T04:39:00.000-05:00Jeff wrote: "That's a leap. I gained my "spiritual...Jeff wrote: <B>"That's a leap. I gained my "spiritual detector" - my spirit, which has the ability to perceive the Holy Spirit - through salvation, which means being made whole."</B><BR/><BR/>Jeff, when we're asleep, we can dream. But some people have gained the ability to dream while being awake. This takes practice, but it is possible. The same can be said about mindfulness through practicing meditation. <BR/><BR/>Does the fact that people have "gained" the ability to induce waking dream states or states of exceptional reflection mean they reactivated parts of themselves that was "dead" and wasn't functioning? Are theses states supernatural?<BR/><BR/>Why is your "spiritual detector" any different?<BR/><BR/>Jeff wrote <B>[spiritual detectors] applies only to those who are born again.</B><BR/><BR/>What exactly does being "born again" mean?<BR/><BR/>Jeff wrote: <B>The fact that we add words constantly to our language is evidence that it is not sufficient to describe reality. Do you not believe that some things are beyond description? How does one describe the indescribable?</B><BR/><BR/>If we cannot sufficiently communicate what you detect with your "spiritual detector", then how can we have meaningful conversations about it? How can it be applied in areas that you, and may other Christians, claim it should be applied? You'd merely go around experiencing that which could only be experienced. Surely, this isn't your position on the holy spirit,is it?<BR/> <BR/>Also, if those with "spiritual detectors" can only describe the tip of the same supernatural iceberg, wouldn't you expect that which they can describe to be consistent? Otherwise, how would you know you're describing the same supernatural iceburg? (or something other than an supernatural iceburg all together)Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193595678064010528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-58751574941483778092009-01-19T23:08:00.000-05:002009-01-19T23:08:00.000-05:00Hi Jeff,so as I said in the article, unless you ca...Hi Jeff,<BR/>so as I said in the article, unless you can show that your experience is something other than Human Cognitive Bias then I'm afraid you are unconvincing.<BR/><BR/>Human Cognitive Bias does not depend on your philosophy, or world view, it is the framework that supports it and human cognitive bias spans categories of people, from Christians to Atheists.<BR/><BR/>The way to get around human cognitive bias is with the scientific method, and cross-checking data. Getting rid of human cognitive bias is very hard, make no mistake, but with other human perspectives cross-checking each other it can be overcome.<BR/><BR/>without resorting to word play, one possibility for things that are indescribable is that they are indescribable because they don't exist.<BR/><BR/>hmmm, jeff, I'm thinking of something indescribable, can you guess what it is? <BR/><BR/>Doesn't that just sound silly?<BR/><BR/>and from your point of view, the <A HREF="http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL2159547520070102" REL="nofollow">persecuting of children as witches in 21st century africa</A> is Justified because there is no way to prove that they are wrong.<BR/><BR/>when it comes to minimizing harm, you can't beat IDQ. Thats why it plays such a big role in the Safety industry. It is more effective in mitigating the problem of Evil than christianity.<BR/><BR/>In some cases, not all, the problem of evil is christianity.<BR/><BR/>even for you, the only way to show those people are wrong is "triangulate" or cross-check it with scripture.<BR/>But you wouldn't be the first to try that. They'd just come back at you with the data from their spiritual detectors.<BR/><BR/>See Jeff, even if Christianity is accurate, it is terrible a reasoning scheme for minimizing harm. And if Christianity is accurate, how is that possible?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19524303106766336052009-01-19T19:08:00.000-05:002009-01-19T19:08:00.000-05:00Can you show this or demonstrate this?A very decen...<I>Can you show this or demonstrate this?</I><BR/><BR/>A very decent and fair question. Let me explain why I think it's impossible to show or demonstrate to your satisfaction. The words "show" or "demonstrate" have connotations for the objective realm. What I am discussing occurs within the self of a man, in his interiority, something that does not lend itself to the objective. But note that neither can your own self be shown or demonstrated. Perhaps the effects of your self may be shown, but not the self itself. You are the only one that has every seen you. The spirit is on a similar plane. <BR/><BR/>One other point. A failure in ability to show or demonstrate does not constitute lack of truth. The thing in question may not lend itself to objective truth, but there is another truth - interior truth that is subject to. <BR/><BR/><I>Is "indescribable" not a description of sorts?</I><BR/><BR/>Well, yes, but how meaningful is it? Silence may be more powerful in this respect.<BR/><BR/><I>The question: what reason is there to think the first possibility is more likely than the second.</I><BR/><BR/>Another fair and decent question. A satisfying reason cannot be provided to someone outside of me, since the experience is inside of me. I cannot satisfy you on the matter, only myself. Likewise, on you can satisfy yourself concerning the matter. I find the experience of the Holy Spirit credible because I know what it is like to apprehend my own self, and the experience of the Spirit is of that same nature. The Spirit does not come to me as an outside experience. It is within me, closer to me than I am to myself. <BR/><BR/>Regarding the original matter, I am not disputing the use of IDQ for certain objective situations, but for interior ones.Jeff Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04502136139528025066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-79669995495455800002009-01-19T16:50:00.000-05:002009-01-19T16:50:00.000-05:00I gained my "spiritual detector" - my spirit, whic...<B><BR/>I gained my "spiritual detector" - my spirit, which has the ability to perceive the Holy Spirit - through salvation, which means being made whole. The fact that I wasn't whole means a part of me was dead, wasn't functioning. The part of me that was functioning was the part that can perceive God and the spiritual realms. Through salvation this dead "organ" was resurrected. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>One possibility: what you say above is true.<BR/><BR/>Another: you merely imagine that you have an "organ" of spiritual perception which is now functioning properly.<BR/><BR/>The question: what reason is there to think the first possibility is more likely than the second.David B. Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468191085576922813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71872630528617003872009-01-19T16:43:00.000-05:002009-01-19T16:43:00.000-05:00Jeff,That's a leap. I gained my "spiritual detecto...Jeff,<BR/><BR/><I>That's a leap. I gained my "spiritual detector" - my spirit, which has the ability to perceive the Holy Spirit - through salvation, which means being made whole.</I><BR/><BR/><I>Thus, if one is not born again, he has no "spiritual detector". </I><BR/><BR/>Can you show this or demonstrate this?<BR/><BR/><I>Do you not believe that some things are beyond description? How does one describe the indescribable?</I><BR/><BR/>Is "indescribable" not a description of sorts?Philip R Kreychehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079037983351521346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29194289485599299412009-01-19T10:17:00.000-05:002009-01-19T10:17:00.000-05:00Lee,Some of your thoughts here are pretty interest...Lee,<BR/>Some of your thoughts here are pretty interesting, but allow me to make some clarifications:<BR/><BR/><I>If Jeff has a spiritual detector built in, like he does for colors and sounds, then we probably all do.</I><BR/><BR/>That's a leap. I gained my "spiritual detector" - my spirit, which has the ability to perceive the Holy Spirit - through salvation, which means being made whole. The fact that I wasn't whole means a part of me was dead, wasn't functioning. The part of me that was functioning was the part that can perceive God and the spiritual realms. Through salvation this dead "organ" was resurrected. This is the very meaning of the central thesis of Christianity, being born again. Thus, if one is not born again, he has no "spiritual detector". <BR/><BR/><I> Does the spiritual realm that he's talking about apply to the rest of those groups or is it Christian only? </I><BR/><BR/>It applies only to those who are born again.<BR/><BR/><I>If the spiritual world can be detected, then it can be described </I><BR/><BR/>I question this premise. The fact that we add words constantly to our language is evidence that it is not sufficient to describe reality. Do you not believe that some things are beyond description? How does one describe the indescribable?Jeff Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04502136139528025066noreply@blogger.com