tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post3467571530363403526..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Psalm 137 is a Genocidal Passage!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90833391929663978302010-07-30T13:59:14.428-04:002010-07-30T13:59:14.428-04:00sconnor put it like It should be put. we are too i...sconnor put it like It should be put. we are too inferior in intelligence to know god(ultimate mystery/truth). Even we Bantus had that belief b4 the confusion that is christianity was forced on us. the sooner we can all come to this basic tenet/principle the more hope there will be for this planet. thanks sconnor u rock man.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05484076266397656876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39619553445802307462010-01-17T17:35:22.527-05:002010-01-17T17:35:22.527-05:00TD and the other biblicists here are splitting hai...TD and the other biblicists here are splitting hairs, and they know it. If they did this with any other piece of western literature, they would be laughed out of lit class.<br /><br />This bible-toting, witnessing, theology-degree-bearing ex-christian used to do it myself, before I woke up from my slumber and came to my senses (took 46 years!!).<br /><br />The verse says what it says. Quit trying to wring other meanings out of it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06201138650524912126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21859478078742339082010-01-15T23:31:17.691-05:002010-01-15T23:31:17.691-05:00double a
To me, God is not evil, and His reputati...double a<br /><br /><i>To me, God is not evil, and His reputation is not vile. That's the difference between you and me. </i><br /><br />Your morbid ignorance is summed up in this one sentence alone.<br /><br />It's completely evident that you have a difficult time absorbing information.<br /><br />The difference between you and me is I'm firmly grounded in reality, while you're a delusional christian who claims to know the will and character of god without any objective evidence -- coupled with contradictory information you have interpreted from a book that can NOT be proven to be accurate in it's depiction of god! <br /><br />Now get this through your thick skull: I do NOT believe god is evil or his reputation is vile.<br /><br />Please take your time and really comprehend my position.<br /><br />The <b>fictional character portrayed in your book of fairy tales is evil and vile</b> which is evidenced by ALL the atrocities committed or commanded by your deranged deity in the fictionalized stories of the bible.<br /><br />Do....you....under....stand?<br /><br />I believe there could be some sort of ultimate reality (an unknowable mystery). I just do NOT believe in a personal christian god, nor the loony christian doctrines that are based on someones interpretation of spurious scripture, that paints a portrait of a schizophrenic, contradictory character. <br /><br />My position is IF a living god exists <b>no one knows</b> the will and/or character of god (good or bad).<br /><br />There is NO objective evidence that the bible accurately depicts a living god.<br /><br />Get it?<br /><br />You DO NOT know the will or character of god, either.<br /><br />To say you "know" the will and character of god is hugely disingenuous and delusional.<br /><br />The absolute arrogance and insanity that is needed to believe in such nonsense -- <i>"my god is good, my god takes an interest in me, listens to me, answers my prayers, loves me, accepts me and will reward me for being a good little christian with the blissful pleasures of heaven"</i> Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo.<br /><br />The only way you think you "know" the will and character of god is by your idiosyncratic and SELECTIVE interpretation of scripture. You pick and choose the attributes of bible-god you like, while ignoring or rationalizing the attributes you do not like and the rest of your god-belief is pure fantasy -- where you simply make it up.<br /><br />Furthermore, the attributes you <i>do</i> like from the bible have no reference in reality. In other words, you have NO objective evidence that which was written about god is true; as opposed to fictional stories made up by the ancient Jews.<br /><br />Does....this....compute?<br /><br />You constructed (made up) a god character, which only exists in the confines of your mind.<br /><br />If a living "god" exists, our understanding or definition of god would be wholly inferior. A god (an ultimate reality) shouldn't have all the faults of humanity; IT should be far above us at least in equaling the magnitude of the universe. IF there is a god -- IT would have to transcend all thought; IT would have to be something that we can't even begin to imagine, let alone giving IT inept human attributes. Which I humbly submit, If god exists, I do NOT know god; god is unknowable and christians sure as shit don't know god either!<br /><br />Read and re-read what I wrote, until you <b>thoroughly comprehend</b> what was said or go away, grow up, get a proper education, read some books like <b>GOD'S PROBLEM -- How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer by Bart D. Ehrman</b> and then come back and we'll talk.<br /><br />May reason fall upon you like an anvil.<br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71915969449310267452010-01-15T15:29:10.650-05:002010-01-15T15:29:10.650-05:00To me, God is not evil, and His reputation is not ...To me, God is not evil, and His reputation is not vile. That's the difference between you and me.Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-89719024183907229282010-01-15T13:04:58.406-05:002010-01-15T13:04:58.406-05:00double a
~Yawn~
Notice how double aa stomps and...double a<br /><br />~Yawn~<br /> <br />Notice how double aa stomps and whines, with his fingers in his ears like an obstinate child, while shouting, <i>"I believe in my god-concept, I believe in my god-concept, I believe in my god-concept!!!!</i>" -- all the while ignoring ALL the relevant and germane arguments I present.<br /> <br />It's painfully obvious, you can NOT refute my arguments, specifically. <br /> <br />The mind virus of christianity still has it's leash on you, which keeps you shackled to your romanticized version of your god-concept, where you must bury your head in the sand like an ostrich, ignoring the specifics of my arguments and make feeble excuses and bloated rationalizations to condone bible-god's evil actions and salvage his malignant, vile reputation. <br /> <br />Now the only question is: will you ever be honest with yourself and admit what I wrote above is tenable?<br /> <br />An extraordinarily good read on the subject of suffering and the bible is: <b>GOD'S PROBLEM -- How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer by Bart D. Ehrman</b><br /><br />I <i>dare</i> you to read it -- triple dog dare you.<br /> <br />I'm not sure why I suggested this book to you -- It will be a hard read, with your head buried and all. I suspect you will be too much of a chicken shit to read it!<br /> <br />May reason find you.<br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-85505448864523416732010-01-15T11:43:48.811-05:002010-01-15T11:43:48.811-05:00Sconnor,
I feel as though I've been taken out...Sconnor, <br />I feel as though I've been taken out to the woodshed and had my backside tore up. <br />You are an amazing talent with the pen, I have to say. <br />I am not mentally ill. <br />I do not ascribe the actions of murderers you cited to 'loving' Christianity. <br />I do not claim to possess any 'special' knowledge. <br />I do, however, see God as good, and feel that having Jesus in my heart is good. <br />None of your non-deluded, historically accurate refutations will change the way I feel. <br />Maybe I'm a liberal Christian. Maybe I'll burn in hell for it, I don't know. If things I say 'disprove' some fundamentalist Christian viewpoint of the bible, so be it. <br />But I do believe we have a Creator and, although I see your point that 'why would He do those things', the underlying force of sin and evil is to blame. God is not to blame. <br />You can scream your fairness doctrine all you want. <br />I don't buy it. <br />I cannot apologize for that.<br />AADouble Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-50706066631798576722010-01-15T08:55:31.653-05:002010-01-15T08:55:31.653-05:00I grew up around born again Christians and have wi...<i>I grew up around born again Christians and have witnessed undeniable love and caring and bible study and in no instance was anyone talking about killin' sinners and evil people per God's word, the bible...I am biased for God!</i> <br /><br />And none of what you just professed make any of your delusional claims or beliefs anymore true.<br /><br />Additionally, you have a romanticized version of a loving christian history. You are a member of a club that has a long, disturbing and bloody history. <br /><br />Consider christianity, in it's infancy -- the horrors of the Crusades and Inquisitions which left rivers of blood in its wake, that spanned centuries -- "If you don't think the way we do and you don't become a christian, then we will torture you and slaughter you".<br /><br />Let's not forget how "loving" christians declared people to be witches and burned them at stakes.<br /><br />Or how about those "loving" bunch of christians from the catholic church who led massive cover-ups, allowing priests to rape children over and over again. (Father So and So couldn't have raped little Johnny, he's a christian and a man of god).<br /><br />And those "loving" catholics also preach abstinence and the sins of condom use, allowing millions to die in undeveloped countries.<br /><br />Or how about those "loving" christian parents of an eleven year old girl -- and other parents like them -- who let their children suffer and die, because they only prayed over her, neglecting medical intervention?<br /><br />Let us not forget the "loving", albeit, sick christians who blow up abortion clinics.<br /><br />How about those "loving" christians who condoned slavery and tortured slaves when they "got out of line", in America.<br /><br />How about the "loving" christians who think gay people are an abomination so they brutally beat them to death?<br /><br />You know what double a come to think of it -- once again using your asinine logic and making unsubstantiated interpretations from scripture and considering god doesn't have a direct line with anyone -- then it would be safe to assume god wasn't the one who relayed this information about gay people being an abomination -- right?<br /><br />Come to think of it -- using your asinine logic -- god's supposed message of salvation is also suspect. In fact, using your dumb-ass logic -- everything in the bible is suspect!<br /><br />Thanks for that! Using your loopy logic you just admitted the bible is NOT the word of god.<br /><br />And don't forget what has happened in the modern age of the twentieth and twenty first centuries with these OH SO "loving" christians: <br />1. Loaded weapon toting Christians in Northern Ireland, Catholics vrs. Protestants in a 30 year old bloodbath.<br />2. Kosovo -- Serbian Orthodox Christians committed mass murder against the mostly Muslim Albanians.<br />3. Bosnian genocide -- Serbian Orthodox Christian forces committed genocide against the Bosnian Muslims.<br />4. The Second Chechen War -- Russian Orthodox Christians vrs. Chechen Muslims. Many atrocities have been alleged on both sides.<br />5. Uganda -- Christian rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army are conducting a civil war in the north of Uganda. Their goal is a Christian theocracy whose laws are based on the Ten Commandments. They abduct, enslave and/or raped about 2,000 children a year.<br /><br />Oh christians are soooo loving.<br /><br />Face it double a,<br /><br />You do not know the will and character of Jesus/god.<br /><br />You do NOT have any objective evidence for ANY of your extraordinary christian/god claims.<br /><br />You do not possess any special knowledge of god, his plan or his morals. <br /><br />You simply attributed your own deluded thoughts and stunted imagination to an imaginary deity.<br /><br />Now, off to your bunker of bibles and rose colored christian glasses where you can bask in morbid ignorance and wallow in deluded superstitious explanations of the reality around you, so as to protect your feeble beliefs and your warped world-view. <br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-20974345996427523872010-01-15T01:29:24.142-05:002010-01-15T01:29:24.142-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-69070190622364130712010-01-15T01:27:45.684-05:002010-01-15T01:27:45.684-05:00Now, all we need to do is go about four pages into...Now, all we need to do is go about four pages into your holy book and imagine an entire world flood where your heavenly father, your all-loving god drowned ALL his earthly children -- millions of lives wiped out; the devastation of a world flood with massive walls of water -- wreaking havoc. Your god committed mass genocide, unequaled by ALL genocidal manics combined but that is not what I take issue with. Most christians try to condone god's egregious actions by rationalizing, "God created them so he can kill them". Fine go with that insane rationalization -- but why did he have to cause them to SUFFER first? Why did children, babies and pregnant women have to suffer first? <br /><br />How, exactly were babies and children wicked? Why did they have to suffer the same consequences? Speculating that they were to grow up and become wicked still doesn't answer the question, why did god cause them to suffer?<br /><br />Drowning is a horrible way to die. And being consistent with what really happens to flood victims who die, then it's safe to say that during the Genesis flood, thousands were crushed by debris, suffering for hours before they died, while others clung to rafts and boats, only to starve to death. Not everyone was wicked and violent, basically your severely, disturbed, and maniacal god -- in an analogy -- burned down an entire orphanage because some of the other kids were bad.<br /><br />This is not a clean and easy way to die. This is NOT a scolding where the men women and children could learn from their mistakes, this is not constructive criticism this is mass genocide -- which accomplished NOTHING. Not only did he kill them he made then SUFFER first -- this is not an all-loving god; this is a megalomaniac, evil character who causes his earthly children to suffer. <br /><br />Presumably your god is omniscient -- why did he create them in the first place? He would've known that he was just going to destroy them anyway? He could have chosen not to create them and/or he could have simply wished them out of existence -- but NO -- your god decided to inflict as much anguish and destruction as he could causing millions of young children and babies to suffer egregiously -- that's fucking evil.<br /><br /><b><i>The Deluge: A punishment inflicted on the human race by an all-knowing God, who, through not having foreseen the wickedness of men, repented of having made them, and drowned them once for all to make them better - an act which, as we all know, was accompanied by the greatest success. -- Voltaire <br /> <br />Why did God fill the world with his own children, knowing that he would have to destroy them? And why does this same God tell me how to raise my children when he had to drown his? -- Robert G. Ingersoll<br /> <br />Was the god of the Hebrews so wise that he couldn't think of anything better than flooding the whole earth to kill those evil humans? That's like burning down the barn to kill rats, or using a sledgehammer to debug a rose bush. Even the world's dumbest surgeon doesn't use a guillotine to remove a mole on someone's neck. -- Skip Church <br /> <br />I don't know who the worst sinners are on this planet, but I am quite sure that if a High Intelligence wanted to exterminate them, It would find a very precise method of locating each one separately. Carelessly murdering millions of innocent children and harmless old ladies, and dogs and cats, is absolutely and ineluctably to state that your idea of God is that of a cosmic imbecile. -- Robert Anton Wilson</i></b>sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6807637054514014272010-01-15T01:26:37.289-05:002010-01-15T01:26:37.289-05:00~contimued~
I mean, who does have a direct line t...~contimued~<br /><br /><i>I mean, who does have a direct line to God? Samuel may have believed he had a direct line to God. I'm sure he was a very Godly person. But that sort of destruction, I don't believe God would order up.</i> <br /> <br />Really? According to your book of fairy tales, that sort of destruction wasn't <i>anything</i>, compared to the flood that god ordered up.<br /> <br />Consider Andrea Yates: She was the mother who drowned her five children in a bathtub. A heinous massacre where everyone would agree that she was either mentally ill or evil. Can you imagine the scene?<br /> <br />Time Magazine:<br /> <br /><b>"On June 20, 2001, when the police reached his modest brick home on Beachcomber Lane in suburban Houston, they found Andrea drenched with bathwater, her flowery blouse and brown leather sandals soaking wet. She had turned on the bathroom faucet to fill the porcelain tub and moved aside the shaggy mat to give herself traction for kneeling on the floor. It took a bit of work for her to chase down the last of the children; toward the end, she had a scuffle in the family room, sliding around on wet tile below a poster that proclaimed the epithets of Christ: SAVIOR, SHEPHERD, BISHOP OF SOULS. She dripped watery footprints from the tub to her bedroom, where she straightened the blankets around the kids in their pajamas once she was done with them.<br /><br />The kids were still having breakfast when she began. First was "Perfect Paul," the 3-year-old who had been her most joyful and least trouble. He died in seconds, held violently underwater by the mother whose hands had carefully washed his hair so that the soap would not sting his eyes. She carried his soaked body to her bed, tucking him beneath a maroon blanket, his head on the pillows. After Paul, she drowned Luke, 2, and moved on to John, 5. Next she killed their baby sister Mary, whom she had distracted with a bottle so she wouldn't scoot away and hurt herself while her brothers were being killed.<br /><br />Noah, her firstborn, was the last to die. The 7-year-old left his half-eaten cereal on the kitchen table when Andrea summoned him. Walking into the bathroom, Noah saw his sister facedown in the water, her tiny fists clenched. He asked, "What's wrong with Mary?" and then, according to the account Andrea would give police, he tried to run away. His mother chased him down, dragged the wailing boy to the bathroom and forced him facedown into nine inches of cold water in the tub, his sister's body floating lifeless next to him. Noah came up twice as he fought for air. But Andrea held her grip. She then laid Mary in bed with her brothers, wrapping their arms around the baby. She left Noah in the tub."</b><br /><br />Can you imagine? Can you imagine those trusting children as they gasped for air -- only swallowing water into their lungs? Can you imagine the terror sweeping over them as they looked into their mothers eyes through the water? The panic, the fear, in the last minutes of their lives?sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-5191917018108419702010-01-15T01:25:33.181-05:002010-01-15T01:25:33.181-05:00double a
Sconnor you have made my arguments for m...double a<br /><br /><i>Sconnor you have made my arguments for me. You can take the passages contextually, and I will take them with my interpretation.</i> <br /> <br />Right just like the other 34,000 separate christian groups, in the world, who use their particular interpretation of scripture to believe in a whole host of absurd and contradictory beliefs. <br /> <br />Can you see how your argument is fallacious? Can you see how this argument is NOTHING but a rationalization that can be used to believe in a whole host of absurd ideas?<br /> <br />Didn't your omniscient god-concept (the creator of the infinite universe) realize that his ALL-important messages would be up to interpretation -- where you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean, which allows for the interpretation to be perverted or misinterpreted to push any agenda? Didn't he realize that there would be 34,000 separate christian groups in the world, All with different understandings; ALL with differing interpretations; bastardizing his message and ALL claiming their interpretation of scripture was TRUE!? Didn't he take into account that fallible human beings would have vast interpretations concerning how one is saved? -- relegating the majority of his earthly children to be tortured in the flames of hell for an eternity?<br /><br />How can it be that the creator of the infinite universe put his ALL-important messages into a book that uses difficult or vague texts and translations, parables, poems, songs, metaphor, dream imagery, switching from literal to non-literal, that could so easily be misinterpreted, perverted or interpreted, so many different ways?<br /> <br />If god is using the bible to get his, all important, message across, you would think, an all- knowing, all-powerful god, could do a better job at delivering the crucial laws, commandments and messages to everyone, equally and unequivocally, but sadly and most certainly this is not the case -- why is that?<br /> <br /><i>By no means do I declare mine to be 'right'.</i> <br /><br />Oh deluded one -- it is implicit that you think your interpetations are "right"; otherwise you wouldn't believe in them.<br /><br /><i>However, I believe in God and have asked Jesus into my heart and I call it like I see it.</i> <br /> <br />It's your drug of choice -- whatever floats your boat. I've already concluded delusional people can convince themselves of anything. Christianity is your form of a motivational speaker, nothing but a rah, rah device to kick yourself in the butt, where you pretend something spiritual has happened, that god had his hand in it, and that your particular interpretation of scripture is the one true interpretation; none of which can be substantiated -- that's lunacy.<br /> <br />Again, you have simply fabricated an insanely and fantastic, massive delusion by idiosyncratically interpreting the superstitious, spurious words of scripture and by erroneously attributing emotions to your Jesus-character. You are pretending to have a relationship with a fictional character out of a book -- you are mentally ill.<br /><br /><i>How I see it: Sure, Samuel could have been confused. It's hard for me to believe Samuel had a direct line to God.</i> <br /> <br />Really? I assume you believe moses had a direct line too god -- right?<br /> <br />Using your asinine logic, one could surmise (interpret) that moses didn't have a direct line to god, either and he just made up the ten commandments.<br /> <br />Why we could go through the whole bible and use your loopy logic and generalize god NEVER had a direct line with anyone in the bible. Hmmmmm? the whole thing was made up.<br /> <br />But nooooooo, you pick and choose what you want to believe, don't you double a? -- just so your concept of god is hunky-dory!sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37511111923437588602010-01-14T16:36:55.097-05:002010-01-14T16:36:55.097-05:00I grew up around born again Christians and have wi...I grew up around born again Christians and have witnessed undeniable love and caring and bible study and in no instance was anyone talking about killin' sinners and evil people per God's word, the bible. So yes, I will diverge from your refutations as I see courses to do so. I am biased for God!Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-27293759359812293662010-01-14T16:32:22.174-05:002010-01-14T16:32:22.174-05:00Sconnor you have made my arguments for me. You can...Sconnor you have made my arguments for me. You can take the passages contextually, and I will take them with my interpretation. By no means do I declare mine to be 'right'. However, I believe in God and have asked Jesus into my heart and I call it like I see it. How I see it: Sure, Samuel could have been confused. It's hard for me to believe Samuel had a direct line to God. I mean, who does have a direct line to God? Samuel may have believed he had a direct line to God. I'm sure he was a very Godly person. But that sort of destruction, I don't believe God would order up. And I haven't seen the part in the bible where God signed off on what Samuel said He said.Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30851316066330218042010-01-13T16:20:32.857-05:002010-01-13T16:20:32.857-05:00Double A
In my humble opinion based on logic and ...Double A<br /><br /><i>In my humble opinion based on logic and not based on ultimate knowledge of the bible: The Word of the Lord could possibly have condemned the Amelakites as wicked, and Samuel could have taken it upon himself to interpret that to mean he should wipe them off the face of the earth.</i> <br /><br /><br />Logic? This is ONLY based upon mere speculation, where you disregard the actual passages and make it mean whatever you want it to mean by layering <i><b>your own</b></i> idiosyncratic interpretation to suit your own needs -- in order to salvage your god-concept.<br /> <br />Stick with the actual passages. The passage is very clear. Contextually, god orders the annihilation of the Amakelites and this is what Samuel conveys to Saul. Contextually Samuel DOES NOT take it upon his self to interpret anything -- he follows orders from the lord and tells Saul to wipe them out!<br /> <br />But if you were to read the rest of the passage Saul does take it upon himself to disobey god's direct orders by not fully decimating everything; he spared King Agag and kept the livestock for himself.<br /> <br />How exactly does that fit into your deluded interpretation?<br /> <br />More speculation?<br /> <br />Maybe Samuel is confused?<br /> <br />Maybe Samuel is Just making shit up?<br /> <br />Maybe Samuel was just pretending that god was relaying a message?<br /> <br />Are we to assume that ANYTHING that god said to his people -- in the bible -- was an erroneous interpretation? Or just the ones that suit your needs? <br /> <br />Maybe Samuel was using the <i>supposed</i> voice of god -- as his own -- to justify and push <i>his</i> sadistic agendas but none of this can be extracted from the actual context of the story. This is why you must jump through hoops shoveling mounds of speculation, while you ignore the context of the story, just so you can satisfy your own deluded conception of who god is. <br /> <br />Point is the bible is a hodgepodge of ideas; a virtual grab-bag, where anyone can pick and choose, making it mean whatever they want it to mean, so they can support any deluded agenda they want. <br /><br />Your god is nothing but a human construct a fictional character out of a book -- a figment of your imagination, a definition, based on your myopic, interpretation of scripture and flights of fancy. <br /><br />Can you stick to the actual context of the story?<br /> <br />I await more speculation and pulling crap out of your arse to justify the blood thirsty megalomaniac character from the bible that you worship as your god.<br /> <br />I suspect you will resort to diverging tactics that don't address my refutation specifically.<br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-83016995515556501032010-01-13T14:59:19.718-05:002010-01-13T14:59:19.718-05:00Samuel is telling Saul what the Lord told him in t...Samuel is telling Saul what the Lord told him in that passage. In my humble opinion based on logic and not based on ultimate knowledge of the bible: The Word of the Lord could possibly have condemned the Amelakites as wicked, and Samuel could have taken it upon himself to interpret that to mean he should wipe them off the face of the earth. <br />Jesus, for instance, would not have led an army to battle against the Amelakites because they were deemed 'wicked' by God. But Jesus was not simply a man, like Samuel.Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-46152580921841429172010-01-13T13:27:15.504-05:002010-01-13T13:27:15.504-05:00Double A
Now, I am not arguing that killing peopl...Double A<br /><br /><i>Now, I am not arguing that killing peoples infants would be any better than genocide...</i><br /> <br />According to the bible -- doesn't this quote, below, from scripture, suggest that god invites unjustified vengeance and suffering on his earthly children?<br /><br /><i><b>1Sam 15:3 The Lord says, Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don't have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies.</b></i> <br /><br />Many deluded christians have to do mighty back-flips and mental gymnastics in order to condone and salvage their sky-father's vile, sadistic actions by offering bloated rationalizations like the Amalekite children were being sacrificed to false gods, and children living with evil people would be better of dead, blah, blah, blah.<br /><br />So, lets get this straight, an all-loving, god created these children and babies, knowing they would be abused and suffer egregiously, with evil people (which god created according to scripture), some of them being burned alive, in heinous sacrificial offerings, but still chose to put these innocent children and babies in these vile, unimaginable situations anyway?<br /><br />And god's only solution to the problem was to rescind his commandment of <b>thou shall not kill</b>, thereby ordering in a barbaric army of men, to destroy everyone, including, pregnant women and innocent children and babies, showing them no pity, using the primitive weapons of the day -- cutting throats, chopping off heads, plunging swords into bellies, bludgeoning and eviscerating, causing some to <b>suffer</b> for hours or days as they slowly died?<br /><br />Now these same psychotic christians will assert that god gave them life, so he can take it -- BUT why did he have to cause them (innocent children and babies) to <b>SUFFER</b> in egregious unthinkable ways first?<br /><br />Why would an all-loving, god create and send these children into these horrific situations, in the first place?<br /><br />And why would a god -- who could simply wish the universe into existence -- not just simply wave his hand and make these children disappear into his awaiting arms, forgoing all the immense pain and mass suffering? <br /><br />And shouldn't an ALL-loving god be above such "human tendencies" such as vengeance and genocide? Isn't Yahweh just a construct that mirrors fallible (atrocious) human tendencies -- a made-up entity? <br /> <br />This one passage alone contradicts everything christians are taught about their ALL-loving god. 1Sam 15:3, coupled with ALL the vile atrocities, acts of violence and vengeful genocide caused by Yahweh and his band of evil marauders (who blindly followed his blood-thirsty orders) absolutely discredited the bible for me -- it decimated ANY belief of a loving personal god which led to conclude Yahweh was just a figment of the imagination, constructed and compiled by the ancient Jews -- who made it ALL up. <br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51211325578018198702010-01-13T11:55:19.018-05:002010-01-13T11:55:19.018-05:00Still people acting repulsively by defending claim...Still people acting repulsively by defending claims that Allah inspires people to want to kill American children as revenge for air bombing of Iraq.<br /><br />Or would that be different?Steven Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39201813828000926202010-01-13T11:18:26.961-05:002010-01-13T11:18:26.961-05:00Losing a child would be ultimate pain. The Psalmis...Losing a child would be ultimate pain. The Psalmist is wishing ultimate pain on those who he yearns for revenge against. But John 'assumes' that if the Psalmist is asking for the infants to be killed, then the parents must have already been killed, hence genocide. This is an example of convenient interpretation. Now, I am not arguing that killing peoples infants would be any better than genocide. However, revenge is a very human tendency, and because there are instances of it in the bible, this does not discredit the bible, in my opinion. TD took John to school on this, I believe.Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-15463746129407064442010-01-12T15:33:58.670-05:002010-01-12T15:33:58.670-05:00Great refutation Russ!
I would also, like to add...Great refutation Russ!<br /> <br />I would also, like to add the authors of the OT and the ancient Jews of the time (the ones who constructed the fictional character Yahweh) believed that god was responsible for ALL the suffering in the world (including the Psalm 137 passage).<br /> <br />A good read on the subject is <b>God's Problem How the Bible Fails To Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer</b> by Bart D. Ehrman. <br /> <br />This is why christians languish in cognitive dissonance because their construct of god doesn't fit the character in the OT and they vomit up every possible excuse they can muster (which you tirelessly compiled; which only represents a small sampling -- all things considered). And when the christian is confronted with the idea that Yahweh is just a fictional character (which easily remedies the situation) they find it unfathomable<br /> <br />Psalm 137, the Almalekite massacre, coupled with, all the acts of genocide -- in the bible -- commanded or perpetrated by Yahweh, that caused the inexcusable, repulsive suffering of innocent children and babies and their ensuing deaths, demonstrates, the God of the bible, to be nothing more than a made up entity, painfully constructed by fallible humans. He is a mirror into human behavior, at it's worst. The God of the Bible, possesses all the contemptible flaws of humanity, an apathetic monster, who makes all genocidal maniacs, combined, pale in comparison -- a being who should be far above and immune to such abhorrent attributes, and should encompass the best of what humanity has to offer, on a level, at least, equaling the magnitude of the universe but sadly, in the end, the God of the bible is far below us.<br /><br />--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-5649429898905036552010-01-12T12:11:47.453-05:002010-01-12T12:11:47.453-05:00Wayne D,
Here on this comment thread we've be...Wayne D,<br /><br />Here on this comment thread we've been told by believers, several trying to convince us with their language filled with absolutes and authority - kind of like theologians, that this passage is to be viewed in the following ways:<br /><i><br />very human psychological truth,<br /><br />poetry,<br /><br />a colorful and dramatic way of expressing a desire for justice to be served, <br /><br />the people happy to kill babies are Persians - not the psalmists, Jews or Christians, <br /><br />there is not enough information to decide about it,<br /><br />a sign that Christian gods can be grieved, <br /><br />having words that don't always mean the same thing, <br /><br />a statement of wanting revenge,<br /><br />not a verse that makes a Christian god happy,<br /><br />evidently loaded with semantic problems in making the happy/blessed distinction,<br /><br />a statement of fact,<br /><br />a clarifying verse for distinct wills of Christian gods,<br /><br />certainly this particular passage is not different from any other description of evil in the Bible,<br /><br />supposed to be interpreted as other literary forms using metaphor, analogy, simile, hyperbole, personification, symbolism, parody, irony, satire, oxymoron, for instance,<br /><br />literal revenge or figurative revenge,<br /><br />rejoicing that the retributive justice of God will be done,<br /><br />this verse "calls for a 'critical realist' approach to the Old Testament, which Jesus himself seemed to hold" [Same person says, "Yahweh was in part a construct of Jewish tribal life, but not solely so."]<br /></i><br />Damn! What a farce! People beat themselves up endeavoring to make sense of the "divinely inspired" words in the Bible and as this list points out, in considering just this one passage, the number of different possibilities and approaches given us by Christians themselves guarantees that consensus even among Christians is impossible. Christians cannot agree about this or any of the other verses in the Bible making it patently absurd to claim that some lone Holy Spirit is guiding this process, or that some version of a Christian god is out there judging people based on what they believe. <br /><br />To be sure, this passage is bizarre, horrific, and morally vulgar and reprehensible. But, from the standpoint of one who cares deeply for his fellow man and who is particularly sensitive to the concerns of children, that would be me, it is every bit as bizarre, horrific, and morally vulgar and reprehensible to inculcate a child with religious beliefs - corruptly packaged with the notion that getting the beliefs wrong means eternal Hell, fire and brimstone - when none of the people and things they're counseled to accept as authorities in such matters - parents, clergy, theologians, saviors, holy spirits, and gods - can agree on any of it.<br /><br />The child burns if the parent is wrong. The child burns if the theologian is wrong. <br /><br />Christian laymen, clergy, and theologians seem uninterested in, oblivious to, or ignorant of their disagreements with each other concerning matters of eternal fate, even the eternal fates of their own children.<br /><br />This should lead all those here defending the faith to stand back and give John all the leeway, all the slack they give each other.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45242444336083299662010-01-12T12:07:17.317-05:002010-01-12T12:07:17.317-05:00In seperate comments, Wayne D, says
John, you are...In seperate comments, Wayne D, says<br /><b><br />John, you are a sick pup.<br /></b><br />and<br /><b><br />Come on! This is a sad psalm of the Jews in exile. How it has been interpretted as a gnocidal passage is beyond me. John, you are really off base on this one.<br /></b><br />Wayne, John is not a sick pup and he is not off-base with the view that the verse is genocidal.<br /><br />Why do you say he's a "sick pup"? Is it that he has thoughtfully considered many interpretations of the verse but fails to reach your preferred conclusion? If you wish to assign fault for not seeing it your way, perhaps you should start with the many distinct interpretations of it by those calling themselves Christians, more specifically, Christian theologians - the studied professionals. John is certainly not alone in finding creative interpretations of that verse, and among the different Christianities and their theologians, there are lots of them dating back centuries.<br /><br />Is it worth noting that all those varying creative interpretations by Christian laymen, clergy and those oh-so-astute theologians, have been arrived at under the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Mull that over just a bit. They are all reading the same words, supposedly worshipping the same god, and are guided by the same Holy Spirit, yet they render so many mutually incompatible conclusions? Why would their Christian gods and holy spirits steer them into disagreement with each other? What the hell could the old Holy Spirit be thinking?<br /><br />Given this I think John deserves to be cut a little slack.<br /><br />Maybe, just maybe, there are so many distinct versions of this passage among all those Holy Spirit-guided Christian theologians because they all have different gods and different holy spirits. Even though they all claim there's one and only one god and holy spirit, maybe what they really mean is that they themselves worship only one god and are filled with only one holy spirit - their own version of god and their own version of holy spirit. That would certainly make sense of it, wouldn't it?<br /><br />With this in mind I think John deserves to be cut even more slack.<br /><br />Or perhaps, just perhaps, there is no god and no holy spirit and all those professional Christian theologians have reached different conclusions based on their own knowledge, experience, biases, social pressures, desire for an emotionally satisfying outcome, and self-interest, among other factors. This is an especially effective explanation for why they see things differently.<br /><br />Considering this possibility I think John deserves to be cut every bit of slack there is.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-17167765638734356352010-01-12T00:40:44.348-05:002010-01-12T00:40:44.348-05:00"Happy is the one who smashes your infants sk..."Happy is the one who smashes your infants skulls on the rocks" isn't a statement essentially supporting genocide, Wayne D? Given the pseudo-history of Israel where they claim a divine mandate to kill off all of the various tribes of Canaan, I don't see how a statement like this could be interpreted in any other light? Its one reason why I'm a Marcionite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39629786136041178402010-01-11T23:39:50.011-05:002010-01-11T23:39:50.011-05:00Come on! This is a sad psalm of the Jews in exile...Come on! This is a sad psalm of the Jews in exile. How it has been interpretted as a gnocidal passage is beyond me. John, you are really off base on this one.Wayne Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08639432800731002070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18728988978914998762010-01-11T22:23:48.118-05:002010-01-11T22:23:48.118-05:00I think this mostly calls for a 'critical real...I think this mostly calls for a 'critical realist' approach to the Old Testament, which Jesus himself seemed to hold. Yahweh was in part a construct of Jewish tribal life, but not solely so.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14864186571439307816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30547961893811471892010-01-11T20:59:18.387-05:002010-01-11T20:59:18.387-05:00I would encourage everyone to comment on this very...I would encourage everyone to comment on this very same Psalm at the evil Calvinist <a href="http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/01/gods-judgment-on-babylon.html" rel="nofollow">Turretinfan's blog.</a> He's erased all my comments so far except one because I strongly disagree with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com