tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post2049593196388709553..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Noah, John, Luke, Paul, and MaryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-120987801137955962008-03-02T05:39:00.000-05:002008-03-02T05:39:00.000-05:00You call that a rebuttal? I won't argue with child...You call that a rebuttal? I won't argue with children from now on. Or those with the reasoning powers of them. I mean, mmm was really pathetic. Not worth my time. I'm glad the US has the world's worst education system. Yes, I'm really happy about it. w00t. Be happy being ignorant my child.Solaris Roscitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00100064560069307514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-72033890651718756532008-03-02T03:58:00.000-05:002008-03-02T03:58:00.000-05:00Solaris wrote: "but I wait, and I wait..."Finally ...Solaris wrote: "but I wait, and I wait..."<BR/><BR/>Finally - some wisdom -Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34566293606331464932008-03-02T02:13:00.000-05:002008-03-02T02:13:00.000-05:00Imagine a herd of sheep blissfully grazing, assumi...Imagine a herd of sheep blissfully grazing, assuming a shepherd is protecting them. Oops, the shepherd is an imaginary myth! NOW what are they gonna do when the wolf pack wanders by? <BR/>And no amount of arguing and insisting is going to make it so.goprairiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00532311590000341237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-36726598742429638782008-03-02T02:12:00.000-05:002008-03-02T02:12:00.000-05:00So, now I sit here awaiting both:1) a response to ...So, now I sit here awaiting both:<BR/>1) a response to my rebuttal<BR/>2) an apology for calling me a bully<BR/><BR/>but I wait, and I wait...0_0Solaris Roscitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00100064560069307514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-87834581880265649162008-03-02T01:49:00.000-05:002008-03-02T01:49:00.000-05:00To start with, you never made any mention of a she...To start with, you never made any mention of a shepherd. But then..<BR/><BR/>A pack of wolves would cut down a shepherd in a second...Solaris Roscitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00100064560069307514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-41184259219683310112008-03-02T01:47:00.000-05:002008-03-02T01:47:00.000-05:00Solaris wrote: Sheep are not more secure than wolv...Solaris wrote: Sheep are not more secure than wolves. Prove that this statement is incorrect, or bugger off.<BR/><BR/>Your understanding of sheep is that they have no shepherd - I have a shepherd who is not afraid of wolves. I love wolves BTW....Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-43515212576333320512008-03-02T01:31:00.000-05:002008-03-02T01:31:00.000-05:00Of course, misrepresenting what I was saying and m...Of course, misrepresenting what I was saying and my motivations (how did you know my motivations? Did daddy/son-in-the-sky mr.jeezuz inform you? Or are you just so smart, so smart in fact you can ignore the main point of my post entirely?) is not entirely unexpected. It also didn't disprove my point, (and because I wasn't bullying you, I'll put this next part in another paragraph for clarity): <BR/><BR/>I don't care what you believe about god or jesus or allah or shiva, or the invisible pink unicorn, <BR/><BR/>or anything else that doesn't exist.<BR/><BR/>Now, try to participate in reality with me for a moment.<BR/><BR/>What I was really doing, and it should be pretty obvious, was demolishing your foolish notion that sheep are more secure than wolves. That is why I spent more time talking about that than the part of the post you rebutted. I disagree with the notion that sheep are(/can ever be) more secure than wolves. If you do, you shall have to provide a counter argument. Please refer to the relevant parts of arguments in the future instead of ignoring them and taking what you want from them (I am not writing the bible here, and it is not my intent that you should be able to cherry pick!). Otherwise, it's clear to everybody you haven't thought things through properly, and are incapable of defending yourself intellectually.<BR/><BR/>To repeat. Sheep are not more secure than wolves. Prove that this statement is incorrect, or bugger off.Solaris Roscitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00100064560069307514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-88094990751808481102008-03-02T00:16:00.000-05:002008-03-02T00:16:00.000-05:00Also, Evan, as far as what you are saying about fu...Also, Evan, as far as what you are saying about fulfillment of the Law, by your approach and understanding, there would be absolutely no difference between practicing Judaism and belief in Y'shua, which is not accurate. Y'shua Himself, when He spoke of divorce, indicated that allowances in the law were made due to the influence and demands of Moses's community. It served a purpose was not adequate in personifying God's love for us - thus, the need for Messiah.Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-65091169355951163132008-03-01T22:51:00.000-05:002008-03-01T22:51:00.000-05:00Solaris wrote: "I would suggest to you, that what ...Solaris wrote: "I would suggest to you, that what you meant to say was "I feel safer as a namby-pamby conformist than I ever did when I went against the grain, because I was bullied by the conformists into hating myself (due to the weakness of my own character)".<BR/><BR/>Well, let's do a little reality check here - if I were one to be cowed into conforming (due, of course to bullying tactics) perhaps your last comment would have had an impact on me - let's see......nope, still a believer! But thanks ever so for the attention. :-)Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62433634387292596512008-03-01T22:33:00.000-05:002008-03-01T22:33:00.000-05:00"Having been a former wolf, I can testify that I w..."Having been a former wolf, I can testify that I was blind to the love and grace that the sheep were trying to extend to me. BTW, God loves wolves, but I feel more secure as a sheep than a wolf."<BR/><BR/>IF you really feel more secure as a sheep than as a wolf, you must ask yourself - "Am I completely sane?". When was the last time you heard of a sheep taking the life of a wolf in order that it should feed? Wolves are geared towards survival, sheep have been domesticated into useless lumps of wool and fat. If I was going to choose to fight one: a wolf or a sheep, I would almost definitely choose the sheep because I would have NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER against a wolf. I also suspect that the sheep would turn tail and run (especially if I picked up a big ole' stick), while a wold would have the >security< and >self-esteem< to stand and face me (and would probably rip me to shreds). I don't think you know anything about THE REALITY OF SHEEP or WOLVES, and therefore, SHOULD REFRAIN FROM USING ANALOGIES ABOUT THEM. Jesus fist-fucking christ! Get a clue! Read some books, or ffs watch the animal planet channel or whatever. Try to understand the things you are talking about (least of all logic and reasoning!) before you go spouting off silly nonsensical metaphors.<BR/><BR/>I would suggest to you, that what you meant to say was "I feel safer as a namby-pamby conformist than I ever did when I went against the grain, because I was bullied by the conformists into hating myself (due to the weakness of my own character)".Solaris Roscitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00100064560069307514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-65045678618432241942008-03-01T21:04:00.000-05:002008-03-01T21:04:00.000-05:00I find it miraculous that Abraham didn't crumble u...<I>I find it miraculous that Abraham didn't crumble under the fear of divine retribution and do Isaac in in spite of the angel telling him not to.</I><BR/><BR/>I find it remarkable that in the 21st century anyone believes the legends of 4th century Palestinian sheepherders are relevant to their lives -- but are you really saying that Abraham would have been RIGHT to kill his son?Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299188458940897810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-69794962483631062232008-03-01T21:02:00.000-05:002008-03-01T21:02:00.000-05:00There are some who insist on holding to a dogmatic...<I>There are some who insist on holding to a dogmatic and literal approach to scripture not realizing that Y'shua did not expect people to adhere to OT scripture but instead told people to rightly divide the word of God.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Matthew 5:17-19<BR/>17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.</B><BR/><BR/>In other words, the minimum expected of followers of Y'shua is the literal following of the Hebrew Bible.<BR/><BR/><B>18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.</B><BR/><BR/>Don't even THINK about changing the Hebrew Bible.<BR/><BR/><B>19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.</B><BR/><BR/>Just in case I wasn't clear.<BR/><BR/>MMM -- if you believe the Bible holds any relationship to God -- then it is perfectly logical for someone to believe this exact quote from GOD suggests that one should follow the Hebrew Bible literally.<BR/><BR/>The text above seems very plain to me.<BR/><BR/>Now if you think the Bible is just some nice writing like Shakespeare or Dante -- great. We agree. If you think God had ANYTHING to do with its production, then you are obligated to explain why such a clear call to fundamentalism from GOD himself is not worthy of a Christian's attention.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299188458940897810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37702051098669419082008-03-01T20:47:00.000-05:002008-03-01T20:47:00.000-05:00Lee wrote: "He is the one that admitted throwing u...Lee wrote: "He is the one that admitted throwing us in like sheep among wolves."<BR/><BR/>Having been a former wolf, I can testify that I was blind to the love and grace that the sheep were trying to extend to me. BTW, God loves wolves, but I feel more secure as a sheep than a wolf.<BR/><BR/>Then Lee wrote "n the bible, we all know that god tested abraham, but stopped him at the last minute (lets ignore the fact that this myth is similar to another one about Artemis(?)).<BR/>Additionally, he told israelis to slaughter the canaanites and kill pregnant women, take the young women for themselves, he killed children in egypt, played a game with the devil with Job, etc, so this kind of shenanigans is not unheard of with jehovah. Yea so christ supposedly changed the covenant, but as so many christians say around here, he can do anything he wants to."<BR/><BR/>There are some who insist on holding to a dogmatic and literal approach to scripture not realizing that Y'shua did not expect people to adhere to OT scripture but instead told people to rightly divide the word of God. OT folks were still in need of a Messiah, but nonetheless, I find it miraculous that Abraham didn't crumble under the fear of divine retribution and do Isaac in in spite of the angel telling him not to. <BR/><BR/>Y'shua did honor the work of the Israelites, saying that they did the hard work. I know it would be very difficult to discern the will of God without Y'shua's example. Not all people love a God that loves even their enemy.<BR/><BR/>Thanks!Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-16616153967488033582008-03-01T16:47:00.000-05:002008-03-01T16:47:00.000-05:00Hi Lee, As I read through your post about original...Hi Lee, <BR/>As I read through your post about original sin, I was left with some thoughts.<BR/><BR/>First is that if God exists, and he is both good and just, original sin cannot be true.<BR/>A better fit is that we are born completely innocent. When learn a moral standard from our parents as we grow. Our judgment has to be based on what knowledge we have of the gospel, and how we well we conduct ourselves morally within the confines of that knowledge. We couldn't be judged for things we don't understand, or know, as this wouldn't be just.<BR/><BR/><I>He is not free in any sense other than his ability to choose what he wants, what he desires.</I><BR/><BR/>But that actually is my understanding of what our free agency consists of, taking things we know and choosing based on that knowledge. Our charge in this life is to learn the gospel, and choose to follow its teachings or reject them. In that sense we are completely free to make that choice. That being said, every single person has to be taught the gospel so that they have that chance to accept or reject its teachings. This is the responsibility that Christ gave to his apostles, to send the gospel message to the world for all to hear and have the chance to choose. If one doesn't get that chance here, there has to be provisions set up to deal with that, or God is unjust.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91768718656348992782008-03-01T00:09:00.000-05:002008-03-01T00:09:00.000-05:00One more:Then Job answered the Lord and said:I kno...One more:<BR/><BR/>Then Job answered the Lord and said:<BR/><BR/>I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. (Job 42:2)Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62692056417848259822008-02-29T16:42:00.000-05:002008-02-29T16:42:00.000-05:00Hi Jason,I'll direct this at you again.People like...Hi Jason,<BR/>I'll direct this at you again.<BR/><I>People like that are deluded into thinking they are doing gods will because of some biological cause. Something built in. Just like people that are addicted to gambling, or taking excessive risks, or overeat, or like to see murder in movies, or lust, or whatever other sin you can think up.<BR/><BR/>It must be more important for God to influence us to the negative than to the positive. Why would that be? That seems inconsistent with a good god, but it is consistent with an evil god. Why wouldn't a fair and just god not build in any negative influence into us at all? Why not eliminate all the positive and negative influence for or against choosing him and let us have true free will?<BR/><BR/>look if god skews the odds, that is not just. If god does not act justly, then he is violating an implicit commitment he made to us not to violate our trust. He is supposed to be trustworthy is he not?</I><BR/><BR/>Theres two issues there.<BR/>1. God influences our freewill toward the negative.<BR/>2. and by doing so betrays our trust.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-14670193867928551282008-02-29T16:36:00.000-05:002008-02-29T16:36:00.000-05:00mmm, insanezenmistress,If one were to think that G...mmm, insanezenmistress,<BR/>If one were to think that God told them to kill their kids or they simply thought that it was gods will, then not to do it would be bad. <BR/><BR/>In the bible, we all know that god tested abraham, but stopped him at the last minute (lets ignore the fact that this myth is similar to another one about Artemis(?)). <BR/>Additionally, he told israelis to slaughter the canaanites and kill pregnant women, take the young women for themselves, he killed children in egypt, played a game with the devil with Job, etc, so this kind of shenanigans is not unheard of with jehovah. Yea so christ supposedly changed the covenant, but as so many christians say around here, he can do anything he wants to. <BR/><BR/>The inner witness of the spirit is evidnece of gods existence, and he works in mysterious ways.<BR/><BR/>Christians paint themselves into a corner and abuse faith by not demanding better evidence for thier faith. I suspect they tolerate the trade-off because it keeps the warm fuzzy buzz going.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-65191634671579762202008-02-29T16:31:00.000-05:002008-02-29T16:31:00.000-05:00Shall we recieve good from God, and shall we not r...Shall we recieve good from God, and shall we not recieve evil? (Job 2:10)Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61295318352952461872008-02-29T15:40:00.000-05:002008-02-29T15:40:00.000-05:00"This is not freewill.lol No, it's not. "If God ha..."This is not freewill.<BR/><BR/>lol No, it's not. "<BR/><BR/>If God has a purpose in this particular isnstance does He not have a purpose in all instances with each and every person? Surely.<BR/><BR/>Consider another instance where God said to Abimelech regaurding Abraham's wife Sara:<BR/><BR/>God said to him in a dream, "Yes I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, and I also KEPT YOU FROM SINNING against me, therefore I did not let you touch her. (Genesis 20:6)<BR/><BR/>Consider the promise of God's law:<BR/><BR/>I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders, and no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the Lord your God.<BR/><BR/>What about the free will of the pagans that had been coveting the land but stopped coveting when the faithful Israelites left to go appear before the Lord? Was this not a violation of their free will?<BR/><BR/>The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will. (Proverbs 21:1)<BR/><BR/>Whatever the Lord pleases He does in heaven and on eart. Psalms 135:6<BR/><BR/>A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way? (Proverbs 20:24)<BR/><BR/>Since his days are determined, and the number of his months is with you, and you have appointed his limits that he cannot pass. Job 14:5)<BR/><BR/>Many are the plans in the mind of man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. (Proverbs 19:21)<BR/><BR/>Yes from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act who can reverse it? (Isaiah 43:13)<BR/><BR/>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:43-44)<BR/><BR/>Libertarian free will is not taught in the Bible.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34815717550127093312008-02-29T15:28:00.000-05:002008-02-29T15:28:00.000-05:00Jason : Who says people who haven't heard the Gosp...Jason : Who says people who haven't heard the Gospel will be judged? If they weren't, would that make the whole situation 'just'?<BR/><BR/>Orthodoxy established by Christian Church Councils for the past 1500 years.leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16371409643400358786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-78205884457434741722008-02-29T15:16:00.000-05:002008-02-29T15:16:00.000-05:00Jason :As for people not hearing the Gospel, their...Jason :As for people not hearing the Gospel, their free will still remains - they just haven't heard the Gospel<BR/><BR/>If the doctrine of original sin is true and I am born into this world with a prior disposition, a prior motivation, a prior inclination and I ALWAYS choose in accordance with my greatest desire at the moment of choice, How am I truely free? Freewill, as most Arminians define it, is choosing spontaneously with out prior influences affecting or determining my choice. This schema has theological and rational problems. <BR/><BR/>The theological problem is that god is not only concerned with the choices we make but also the motives behind our choices. But if there are no prior motivations how could our choices bear any moral consequences whatsoever. They just happen. a matter of caprice.<BR/><BR/>The second problem is a rational problem. If my choices have no prior motivation, dispositions, or inclinations then essentially we are proposing an effect without a cause.<BR/>People who are born into this world who are hostile to the things of god, ( due to their fallen state) cannot choose contrary to their desires. If they do not hear the gospel, which Arminians claim is the power of God to change hearts and minds, then they are doomed to an eternity in hell, because someone 6,000 years ago, ( Adam) ate some exotic fruit at the prompting of a talking snake and man is therefore fallen from his birth. He is not free in any sense other than his ability to choose what he wants, what he desires. Augustine said, man has a "Liberiam arbitriam," or free will but in the fall he lost "Libertos". Moral liberty. TheLatin spelling is probably not correct, however the definition is.<BR/><BR/>If we attempt to consider free will under todays standards, we are told that 60 to 70 percent of who you will grow up to be is determined when the egg splits for the first time in your mothers womb. Your DNA establishes 60% to 70 % of who you will be. Add to this environment, add to this prior choices and how they affect future decisions and one can begin to understand why most most modern philosophers do not believe we are free.leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16371409643400358786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-10698262085996045132008-02-29T15:01:00.000-05:002008-02-29T15:01:00.000-05:00well, i am not entierly against chrisitanity per s...well, i am not entierly against chrisitanity per se. i just wish they would be more realilistic. (dont jump on that one too wide open)<BR/><BR/>what i mean is, in other faiths such as orential ones, meditateive ones, and even psychology ( not a faith i know, but an attempt at understanning) these institutions care about tellign teh difference between the voice of god and the voice of halucination.<BR/><BR/>If the christians would deside if their good is good or if he is inclinde to evil then it ought to be easy to know that any voice tellign you to kill your kids would be a halucination, and the voice that tells you to understand their needs and give of yourselv to provide it would be the voice of reason ( or god or love or self-denyal) ahhh SELF denial...theres a central theme in chrisitnaity.<BR/><BR/>If chrisitanity would teach their people to test the spirits as they are commaneded to, if chrisitanity would teach their people to be well seasoned in knowing good and evil as hebrews suggests.<BR/><BR/>but no they get all wrappe dup in hero worship and waiting for the rapute space bus, that they dont pay any attention to the evils of their human minds. They never wake up and quesiton the voices in their heads.<BR/><BR/>for me i think anyone who woudl want to seek god should really want to be SOBER MINDED about doign so. ESP if they belive in a devil.<BR/><BR/>ESP if they belvie in their own book when it says the heart is deceptive. <BR/>I am saying that even thru the contradictions of their book, there are cirtian teachings that ought to safe guard them from lettign jsut any thought take control over them jsut becasue it says it is GGOOOOODDDDD>.....<BR/>i wish that christianity would teach people but they wont so...<BR/><BR/>forget it. thats why i have to reject the faith, and try to drown the baby in the bath water.<BR/><BR/>faith, i dont think, should mean give up all one's ability to think and make sence of what ever goes on in their minds. reality and finding truth is what faith should be about.Insanezenmistresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18188433016350019722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26047578832523833302008-02-29T14:53:00.000-05:002008-02-29T14:53:00.000-05:00Who says people who haven't heard the Gospel will ...Who says people who haven't heard the Gospel will be judged? If they weren't, would that make the whole situation 'just'?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18632496295358009372008-02-29T14:18:00.000-05:002008-02-29T14:18:00.000-05:00Hi Lee,However, millions upon millions of people n...Hi Lee,<BR/><I>However, millions upon millions of people never hear or are exposed to the gospel. Do they have an opportunity? No! </I><BR/><BR/>I have to agree that this is unjust. You can't judge someone based on the gospel of Christ if they have never heard it. Here's a different take on the subject for you to read.<BR/><A HREF="http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_Salvation_for_the_Dead.html" REL="nofollow">Salvation for the dead</A><BR/><BR/><I>The rights of the creator will always be greater that the rights of the creature, therefore I care not how you slice it..... God must bear ultimate responsibility.</I><BR/><BR/>I also agree here that the creator is responsible for his creation. But I think you need to hold of judgment on the creator until all the facts are in. What may seem unjust now, because of the lack of information, just might turn out to be just.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-9070627763992216722008-02-29T12:31:00.000-05:002008-02-29T12:31:00.000-05:00Lee,If one were to assume for a moment the 'doctri...Lee,<BR/><BR/>If one were to assume for a moment the 'doctrine' of Original Sin is correct, I still don't see how free will has been removed. As for people not hearing the Gospel, their free will still remains - they just haven't heard the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you're trying to argue a different point that I'm not picking up on...?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.com