tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post115544934513858089..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: From Religion to ReasonUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1169779089166893772007-01-25T21:38:00.000-05:002007-01-25T21:38:00.000-05:00Your parents played an important role in your deco...Your parents played an important role in your deconversion story, so it seems incomplete because you didn;t tell us how they reacted. Please tell us how your parents handled your de-conversion and how your relationship with them is now. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1162290837683488832006-10-31T05:33:00.000-05:002006-10-31T05:33:00.000-05:00Any psychologist would point out to you that your ...Any psychologist would point out to you that your conflicts all stemmed from problems with your dad.<BR/><BR/>Hardly a theological issue.<BR/><BR/>And though you may be happier now, this is simply a psychological observaton and irrelevant to the truth or falsity of your "arguments".<BR/><BR/>Pretty standard stuff, the usual generalizations and straw man straw men.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but I find you testimony unconvincing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155904049010079502006-08-18T08:27:00.000-04:002006-08-18T08:27:00.000-04:00A very moving story, Matthew. Don't worry now abou...A very moving story, Matthew. Don't worry now about your school years, they're over. If you ask around, most people will tell you they had a crap time at school. Certainly I did. It was only when I left that things started to get better.<BR/>One good thing: with all the reading you've done, you're now an expert on christianity, so when you're debating with a fundamentalist (and you will), and he accuses you of not knowing enough about the bible, you'll be able to put him right.<BR/>Remember, you are not alone, and you are free!Deacon Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00696080813845107311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155693118141488312006-08-15T21:51:00.000-04:002006-08-15T21:51:00.000-04:00Bruce: Predict was a poor word. We both know we...Bruce:<BR/> Predict was a poor word. We both know we won't convince each other of anything we don't want to believe... I was only trying to say that an attitude towards living for today naturally follows from a belief that this world is all there is.<BR/><BR/>As Rusty says, I doubt you will deny cause and effect, or that we are subject to the consequences of our actions, or the positions we adopt based on our assumptions (if we are intellectually honest with ourselves).<BR/><BR/>"Why can't we just be and try to make the best of it?"<BR/>The question is who will define best? Majority vote? Power mad dictators? The intellectual or cultural elite?nedbrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484011165536152141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155676183254053832006-08-15T17:09:00.000-04:002006-08-15T17:09:00.000-04:00Matthew,Great post. Your story is earily similar ...Matthew,<BR/><BR/>Great post. Your story is earily similar to my own, although I've only been calling myself an atheist for a few weeks now.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the great ideas and stories. I look forward to reading more from you.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13666102861045517530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155652598074644562006-08-15T10:36:00.000-04:002006-08-15T10:36:00.000-04:00Jeff T, I really appreciate the kind words. I ha...Jeff T,<BR/><BR/> I really appreciate the kind words. I haven't met Mrs. Right yet but I haven't given up hope! <BR/><BR/> MatthewMatthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03301708892076758582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155582054877792392006-08-14T15:00:00.000-04:002006-08-14T15:00:00.000-04:00I was only checking to see if everyone has thought...<I>I was only checking to see if everyone has thought through the consequences of their assumptions.</I><BR/><BR/>Why would there be any consequences? Again, you seem to be putting some sort of human value judgement on our existence. Why can't we just be and try to make the best of it?<BR/><BR/><I>I would be more apt to agree with you, if only the Bible hadn't predicted your outlook</I><BR/><BR/>I highly doubt you are going to convince anyone here to take you seriously using Bible prophecy.<BR/><BR/><I>While evolution is a part of our existance it still doesn't explain why we exist to me.</I><BR/><BR/>Why do you insist on having to have an answer to that question now? Why do you even need an answer to that question? If you could truly say to yourself "I don't know why we are here" would it really affect you that much? Would living really be meaningless? Would you suddenly go out and kill yourself? If so, I think that says a lot more about you than it does about our existence.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11338993634025153018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155575947827718052006-08-14T13:19:00.000-04:002006-08-14T13:19:00.000-04:00The universe does not necessarily need a purpose. ...The universe does not necessarily need a purpose. I did not mean to be arrogant. I was only checking to see if everyone has thought through the consequences of their assumptions. If you believe that this life is all there is, and when you (and everyone else) are gone, that's it - you are free to believe it.<BR/><BR/> Animals are not self-aware; so no, they do not know about purpose.<BR/><BR/>I would be more apt to agree with you, if only the Bible hadn't predicted your outlook: 1 Corinthians 15:32 "what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."nedbrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484011165536152141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155569421852057652006-08-14T11:30:00.000-04:002006-08-14T11:30:00.000-04:00Out of curiosity, why is it arrogant to think our ...<I>Out of curiosity, why is it arrogant to think our existance has a purpose?</I><BR/><BR/>Do you think any other life form on this planet cares if its own existence has a purpose? Seems that we humans are intent on inventing one because we know that the Earth and the Universe were made just for us.<BR/><BR/>I can accept the fact that we came to be what we are not because of any ultimate purpose but rather because of the natural process of evolution. Can you?Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11338993634025153018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155531472393201852006-08-14T00:57:00.000-04:002006-08-14T00:57:00.000-04:00If everything everywhere will die? Why bother? Why...<I>If everything everywhere will die? Why bother? Why keep going?</I><BR/><BR/>Why, because I like living. Sure, there is a bunch of crap I have to put up with, but on the whole, the pluses greatly outweigh the negatives. In my situation, I just think of the love I have for my wife and how I never want to leave her. Of course I realize that I will some day, but I'd rather put that off as long as possible. My guess is most people have at least something in life that keeps them going as well.<BR/><BR/><I>When the pain is too great to stand?</I><BR/><BR/>Here in Oregon we have doctor assisted suicide for terminal patients.<BR/><BR/><I>What answer does atheism or deism give to these questions?</I><BR/><BR/>Atheism itself? Nothing. Atheism isn't a philosophy about life, it is merely non-belief in the supernatural. Granted, most of us tend to be of the Secular Humanism persuasion, but no guarantees.<BR/><BR/>But my question back to you is, why must the Universe and our existence have a purpose? That is a pretty arrogant assumption on your part. I agree with Matthew, instead of dwelling on our impending death, why not just concentrate on living here and now?Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11338993634025153018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155526671251190182006-08-13T23:37:00.000-04:002006-08-13T23:37:00.000-04:00What does it all mean if we will all die? If ever...What does it all mean if we will all die? If everything everywhere will die? Why bother? Why keep going? When the pain is too great to stand? What answer does atheism or deism give to these questions?nedbrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484011165536152141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155519938644904322006-08-13T21:45:00.000-04:002006-08-13T21:45:00.000-04:00What does logic tell you will happen when you die?...<I>What does logic tell you will happen when you die? When we all die?</I><BR/><BR/>Remember what is was like before you were conceived in your mother's womb? Of course not, you didn't exist. Same thing when you die, so make the best of it now.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11338993634025153018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155513393211856672006-08-13T19:56:00.000-04:002006-08-13T19:56:00.000-04:00Nedbrek, I am not sure what logic will tell us ha...Nedbrek,<BR/><BR/> I am not sure what logic will tell us happens when I die, all of us, or the universe does. The fact of the matter is that I am not even trying to think about death at all but about living and learning.<BR/><BR/> MatthewMatthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03301708892076758582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155502829744746022006-08-13T17:00:00.000-04:002006-08-13T17:00:00.000-04:00In terms of abandoning Wellhausen's Doctumentary H...In terms of abandoning Wellhausen's Doctumentary Hyptothesis, one does not need to presuppose Christianity. The Documentary Hypothesis has come under much critical attack by scholars. Here is a brief list of works that dramatically criticise it just within a span of a few years: R. Rendtorff, Das Überlieferungsgeschichtliche Problem des Pentateuch (BZAW 147), (De Gruyter, Berlin and New York, 1977); idem, VTS 28, 1975, pp.158-166 (= JSOT 3, 1977, pp.2-10); H. H. Schmid, Der sogenannte Yahwist (Theologischer Verlag, Zurich, 1976); J. van Seters, Abraham, pp.123-313.<BR/><BR/>I always thought the proposition that we see "god" the way we see our father or relate to him the way we relate to our father was silly--but you seem to be evidence that for some people, it is very true. Just as your father was never there for you, so "god" ends up not being there for you either. You couldn't turn to your father for help and learned from him that you had to make your way in life on your own, that is why you now say it's up to you and you alone. You associate "god" with your relationship with your father and probably therefore, also associate religion with your father's way of behavior also.<BR/><BR/>I agree that many of those you ran across are a hindrance and not a help. While they give an appearance of working for the cause of truth and reason, they are committed first and foremost to evangelical Christianity and this colors and distorts their otherwise well-intentioned pursuits. I've found this to be such a great hindrance to my reason-based faith that I've left the church. Yet even outside the institutional organization I am impeded by anti-intellectualism in individuals and by Christian propaganda in books. The real trick is finding the line between right and left, between presuppositional skepticism and presuppositional belief, to be critical...not only with arguments, evidences, and texts, but with oneself.slaveofonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493574936843969520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155485567801940062006-08-13T12:12:00.000-04:002006-08-13T12:12:00.000-04:00Matthew, I am sorry to hear of your pain. What do...Matthew, I am sorry to hear of your pain. What does logic tell you will happen when you die? When we all die? When the universe dies?nedbrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484011165536152141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155478111687684152006-08-13T10:08:00.000-04:002006-08-13T10:08:00.000-04:00Very interesting story, Matthew. While I loathed J...Very interesting story, Matthew. <BR/><BR/><I>While I loathed Jason for his self-righteousness, I thought Mike was well-meaning but a moron</I>. <BR/><BR/>We get a lot of Christian people here at DC who represent one of these extremes. It's a breath of fresh air whenever they are neither like a Jason nor a Mike. Neither extreme helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1155451486486240932006-08-13T02:44:00.000-04:002006-08-13T02:44:00.000-04:00Thanks, Matthew, for your story. I know my deconve...Thanks, Matthew, for your story. I know my deconversion story is really tough to tell others; thanks for having the bravery to share it.<BR/><BR/>I am curious about your current relationship with your parents. My parents are also very devout Christians, and I believe I've kept trying to make sense of Christianity purely to please them. (Even though I'm in my 30s.) Do your parents know about your deconversion? Do you still talk with them?SuperSkeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507148959510773930noreply@blogger.com