I remember a pastor in a Calvary Chapel church gave an entire message about "God Speaking" to him. Afterwards I asked him if the voice was audible(which goes against the C.C. doctrine)and he told me the voice he heard was indeed audible. I told him in five years of being a Christian(at the time) I never heard an audible voice, even though I asked God for one.
The Pastor looked me in the eye and "yelled" very loud "you are not listening"
I really need to purchase your books to understand this more fully, but from what I've read and heard here on your blog, the OTF seems to me to be a very simple and powerful way to discard all but the most trivial aspects of any religion.
For instance, it is more reasonable to believe that Bigfoot might exist based on the anecdotal evidence than to believe in Christianity as a whole. A more reasonable comparison to Bigfoot agnosticism (not rejecting but not accepting the existence of Bigfoot) would be the belief that Jesus (sans the super powers) may have been a real person who drew a large or small following in his time; both that and the belief that Bigfoot may or may not exist can pass the OTF. But once you start piling on the holy magic, the gods, the miracles, the alternate dimensions of reality, the angels, divine communion, etc., the belief can no longer muster the credentials it needs to pass the OTF.
So I see the OTF as a tool for stripping away the silliness in religion, and not just from religions with gods but from all religions. After a religion comes out of the OTF, it doesn't need to be scientific, but it does need to be reasonable so that an outsider doesn't have to adopt a whole new vision of reality to understand where the religion is coming from.
Perhaps another way to say it is: the OTF takes away faith but can leave one with a hunch. It disallows faith but not the bias. In that case, you can continue practicing your rituals because they make you feel acculturated or because of tradition but not because a god will be angry and bar you from Heaven if you do not. You can continue to chant because it makes you feel better but not because it will help you get closer to achieving Nirvana. And so on. It's the difference between A) believing in Bigfoot's possible existence because you're too unwilling to notice that the anectdotal evidence is actually evidence for bears, people in gorilla suits, and tall tales and B) believing that you should not camp out in a particular forest because the Bigfoot in it will kidnap you at night; one is a bias or a hunch, the other is silly and delusional.
Today Ken Pulliam picks up Craig Blomberg’s explanation of why Christians depart the faith. The third of these, in Blomberg’s words is the Christian’s “for the first time [taking] seriously and [investigating] seriously an alternate world view.”
Blomberg is acquainted with hundreds of student embarked on a career as purveyors of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He implies that few of them have much knowledge of any world view except their brand of Christianity.
In other words, they’ve not taken the OTF. And when they do, Blomberg says, they, or their faith, flunk.
Does the OTF address the reality of objective truth IF God exists(and the Infinite Creator does)?
Does it address the fact that how you grow up and what you believe does NOT determine this objective truth (factual reality consistent with God's omniscience)?
Does the OTF address the fact that truth is in and of itself NOT based on whether we discover it or believe it?
Does the OTF address the fact that cultures believe all kinds of ridiculous things BUT this has no bearing on objective truth or brute facts about the fundamental realities of the universe?
Does the OTF address the fact that discovery of truth has to be based on sound assumptions (how the Creator is a conclusion and not an assumption) based on observations rather than on empty logic or empty philosophy which is completely ignorant (state of ignoring)of the Creator?
Does the OTF address the fact that millions of worship songs are being written to ONE Creator and ONE Lord Jesus Christ throughout the world and that millions of Christians are worshipping this Creator quite differently (with love, joy, peace that surpasses all understanding)and not just out of fear or religious tradition or mechanical religious practice?
Does it address the fact that only ONE God is a God of tremendous GRACE Who forgives your sins because He Alone paid for them?
How can you test a relationship that you don't even have...or experience?
8 comments:
Christianity resonates with many people too.
Gratz on the mention!
~Rhaco
@thepolemicalmedic
Who gives a rip?
I remember a pastor in a Calvary Chapel church gave an entire message about "God Speaking" to him. Afterwards I asked him if the voice was audible(which goes against the C.C. doctrine)and he told me the voice he heard was indeed audible. I told him in five years of being a Christian(at the time) I never heard an audible voice, even though I asked God for one.
The Pastor looked me in the eye and "yelled" very loud "you are not listening"
What a joke.
exreformed said... "The Pastor looked me in the eye and "yelled" very loud "you are not listening"
What a joke."
Ahhh! Yoda's little friend you seek http://www.galacticbinder.com/images/YodaForceLift1.jpg
The Outsider Test Resonates With Many People
So does Islam. And Buddhism.
If it's so blatantly misguided I wonder why it resonates with so many people?
Were you refering to Christianity here? :-)
I really need to purchase your books to understand this more fully, but from what I've read and heard here on your blog, the OTF seems to me to be a very simple and powerful way to discard all but the most trivial aspects of any religion.
For instance, it is more reasonable to believe that Bigfoot might exist based on the anecdotal evidence than to believe in Christianity as a whole. A more reasonable comparison to Bigfoot agnosticism (not rejecting but not accepting the existence of Bigfoot) would be the belief that Jesus (sans the super powers) may have been a real person who drew a large or small following in his time; both that and the belief that Bigfoot may or may not exist can pass the OTF. But once you start piling on the holy magic, the gods, the miracles, the alternate dimensions of reality, the angels, divine communion, etc., the belief can no longer muster the credentials it needs to pass the OTF.
So I see the OTF as a tool for stripping away the silliness in religion, and not just from religions with gods but from all religions. After a religion comes out of the OTF, it doesn't need to be scientific, but it does need to be reasonable so that an outsider doesn't have to adopt a whole new vision of reality to understand where the religion is coming from.
Perhaps another way to say it is: the OTF takes away faith but can leave one with a hunch. It disallows faith but not the bias. In that case, you can continue practicing your rituals because they make you feel acculturated or because of tradition but not because a god will be angry and bar you from Heaven if you do not. You can continue to chant because it makes you feel better but not because it will help you get closer to achieving Nirvana. And so on. It's the difference between A) believing in Bigfoot's possible existence because you're too unwilling to notice that the anectdotal evidence is actually evidence for bears, people in gorilla suits, and tall tales and B) believing that you should not camp out in a particular forest because the Bigfoot in it will kidnap you at night; one is a bias or a hunch, the other is silly and delusional.
Today Ken Pulliam picks up Craig Blomberg’s explanation of why Christians depart the faith. The third of these, in Blomberg’s words is the Christian’s “for the first time [taking] seriously and [investigating] seriously an alternate world view.”
Blomberg is acquainted with hundreds of student embarked on a career as purveyors of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He implies that few of them have much knowledge of any world view except their brand of Christianity.
In other words, they’ve not taken the OTF. And when they do, Blomberg says, they, or their faith, flunk.
Does the OTF address the reality of objective truth IF God exists(and the Infinite Creator does)?
Does it address the fact that how you grow up and what you believe does NOT determine this objective truth (factual reality consistent with God's omniscience)?
Does the OTF address the fact that truth is in and of itself NOT based on whether we discover it or believe it?
Does the OTF address the fact that cultures believe all kinds of ridiculous things BUT this has no bearing on objective truth or brute facts about the fundamental realities of the universe?
Does the OTF address the fact that discovery of truth has to be based on sound assumptions (how the Creator is a conclusion and not an assumption) based on observations rather than on empty logic or empty philosophy which is completely ignorant (state of ignoring)of the Creator?
Does the OTF address the fact that millions of worship songs are being written to ONE Creator and ONE Lord Jesus Christ throughout the world and that millions of Christians are worshipping this Creator quite differently (with love, joy, peace that surpasses all understanding)and not just out of fear or religious tradition or mechanical religious practice?
Does it address the fact that only ONE God is a God of tremendous GRACE Who forgives your sins because He Alone paid for them?
How can you test a relationship that you don't even have...or experience?
Question everything!
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