At the beginning of this year, I came to a point in my life where I could no longer devote my life to something that I was no longer certain is true. Perhaps more and more people are coming to the same realization.
The evidence continues to blow up the folk beliefs which attribute religiosity to "memes," "god genes," "god parts of the brain," and existential anxieties. Regarding the last pseudo-explanation, Americans die uniformly across the country, but a lot of them don't feel the need to "get right with Jesus" beforehand.
Basically the firebrands on both sides of this theism-versus-atheism debate have missed the point: People have a weak attachment to religion. They feel drawn to it under defective living conditions, like in the American South, and they drift away from it under better living conditions, like in New England and in most of the Western states.
the title of the thread is misleading. there are other polls that show americans are as "spiritual" as ever, even if they don't necessarily identify with a particular denomination.
Rodney Stark's research denies this. See "What Americans Really Believe." But it is rather immaterial concerning the truth or falsity of believe in God.
Trae stated: “other polls that show americans are as "spiritual" as ever
As an atheist, I’m a spiritual person, but not religious.
Spiritual for me is a hot cup of coffee on a cold winter’s night, a view from Whiteside Mountain over looking northern Georgia or a rainbow after a strong strom.
Spirituality, for many people, has NOTHING at all to do with religion, especially Christianity!
I love seeing how some christians try to deny the indications of these poll results, while some use it as proof that we're in "the last days", hence, the bible's prediction proves it is true.
I just hope more and more people will come to realize that christianity and religion in general is not necessary. Why people believe they must be a part of one is for them to critically evaluate and ask themselves. And if they do convince themselves of having a religion, then ask themselves again, if it is necessary for everyone else to believe as they do.
God has always had his true Holy Remnant…the Book of Revelation limits true Christians to only 144,000. The rest are people with false religion deceived by Satan.
This is why Jesus said: "Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.” Matt. 7:13
If you want to know more, you need to get my six hour audio course in which I deal with this vitally important subject entitled:
God’s Elect: How to Know If You Are Really Saved
This $300.00 course is now yours absolutely free! (Just pay shipping and handling: $85.99.)
Friends, don’t be whitewashed, but make sure you are washed in the blood of the lamb!
(About the author (Me): I have my B.A. degree: Born Again! I am currently ordained of God, but not of man. I am one of the 144,000 and I want you to be too.)
Harry H. McCall, CET said: "As an atheist, I’m a spiritual person, but not religious."
And I've met Christian fundamentalists who said they were "spiritual but not religious," or SBNR as I call it now.
The word "spiritual", and esp. the combination of words "spiritual but not religious" are so polluted, and mean so many different things depending on who's saying it, that if you find out that a person is "spiritual but not religious", you haven't found out anything. The words are completely and utterly meaningless, they convey no meaning at all, and are nothing but noise.
If you want people to know what you mean, do not use the words "spiritual" or "spiritual but not religious," because these can mean anythng at all, and consequently mean nothing at all.
@Mark Plus: They feel drawn to it under defective living conditions, like in the American South, and they drift away from it under better living conditions, like in New England and in most of the Western states.
Unfortunately, Christian fundamentalism appears to be on the rise here in New England as well. New congregations seem to pop up now with alarming frequency. In fact, last year, Harvard granted a PhD in biology to a young earther who promptly went to work for one of the creationist organizations.
The great problem we face in communicating our atheism is acknowledged when we realise how insidious religion is. When we recognise the fact that religion has so pervaded and commandeered everyday English as part of its comprehensive malignant colonisation of human experience, it becomes evident that we cannot speak of spirituality without theistic connotation. Spirituality is a perfectly normal emotive and psychological state experienced by people regardless of theism or otherwise. Equally there are so many words that have been appropriated by the religious; we need to face this fact and call attention to it. Publicise the fact.
We must evict religion and reclaim the language that expresses the full range of human emotions and experiences for genuine freethought.
Unfortunately there are some words that are so poisoned, or so religiously oriented. For example: as the religiose use it, spirituality is the alienation of humanity: the human [and the best part of being human] attributed to the non-human [read supernatural entity, god]. It is better to discard them and replace with appropriate alternatives without the stink of association.
Harry and stevec, I'd be interested in your views.
You have registered some good points for consideration. My use of the term “spiritual” is based partly on a psychologist who stated, on National Public Radio some years ago, that all people are spiritual (in a secular sense) before they are religious, if they ever become religous.
The imaginary play world of children is directly linked to their spirituality as girls play with dolls and boys either guns or cars.
The video gaming industry has incorporated this concept into new graphics that have the ability to keep gamers hooked for days on their games as processors speeds become faster and games become more lifelike. In this light, I would say that for the videoplayer, the game is very spiritual for them.
On another point, the use of the term Bible has been and is being used more in a secular sense: The Hunter’s Bible; The Fishman’s Bible; and so on.
When a famous person commits suicide, the secular new talk shows often report he that did so because he could no longer deal with his “demons”.
Here, just like the use of the term Bible, “demons” is used in a secular way and as an equal but secular opposite meaning for “spiritual”.
Harry -- That's an interesting interpretation of video games. I wonder if, somewhere down the line, someone re-invents god as an AI-based entity. That's further down the Singularity hole than I'm usually comfortable going, but the implications are interesting.
I think, for the ancient world, religion was their video game as it expanded on life and made an escape from reality possible.
For us moderns, most video games gives the player a choice: One can be a hero “god” in a land of evil or, in the case of Grand Theft Auto, one can play the villain (Satan).
Evict religion; combat Christianity ...just a few of the principles of this web site eh? How poignant and beautiful? Not. How arrogant and unproductive.
17 comments:
At the beginning of this year, I came to a point in my life where I could no longer devote my life to something that I was no longer certain is true. Perhaps more and more people are coming to the same realization.
What the hell is going on in Tx?
For Catholics, TX is on the extreme left, with +9%, but for "other christians", it's on the extreme right, at -20%.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-ARIS-faith-survey_N.htm
The evidence continues to blow up the folk beliefs which attribute religiosity to "memes," "god genes," "god parts of the brain," and existential anxieties. Regarding the last pseudo-explanation, Americans die uniformly across the country, but a lot of them don't feel the need to "get right with Jesus" beforehand.
Basically the firebrands on both sides of this theism-versus-atheism debate have missed the point: People have a weak attachment to religion. They feel drawn to it under defective living conditions, like in the American South, and they drift away from it under better living conditions, like in New England and in most of the Western states.
the title of the thread is misleading. there are other polls that show americans are as "spiritual" as ever, even if they don't necessarily identify with a particular denomination.
Rodney Stark's research denies this. See "What Americans Really Believe." But it is rather immaterial concerning the truth or falsity of believe in God.
Trae stated: “other polls that show americans are as "spiritual" as ever
As an atheist, I’m a spiritual person, but not religious.
Spiritual for me is a hot cup of coffee on a cold winter’s night, a view from Whiteside Mountain over looking northern Georgia or a rainbow after a strong strom.
Spirituality, for many people, has NOTHING at all to do with religion, especially Christianity!
I love seeing how some christians try to deny the indications of these poll results, while some use it as proof that we're in "the last days", hence, the bible's prediction proves it is true.
I just hope more and more people will come to realize that christianity and religion in general is not necessary. Why people believe they must be a part of one is for them to critically evaluate and ask themselves. And if they do convince themselves of having a religion, then ask themselves again, if it is necessary for everyone else to believe as they do.
God has always had his true Holy Remnant…the Book of Revelation limits true Christians to only 144,000. The rest are people with false religion deceived by Satan.
This is why Jesus said:
"Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.” Matt. 7:13
If you want to know more, you need to get my six hour audio course in which I deal with this vitally important subject entitled:
God’s Elect: How to Know If You Are Really Saved
This $300.00 course is now yours absolutely free! (Just pay shipping and handling: $85.99.)
Friends, don’t be whitewashed, but make sure you are washed in the blood of the lamb!
(About the author (Me): I have my B.A. degree: Born Again! I am currently ordained of God, but not of man. I am one of the 144,000 and I want you to be too.)
Harry H. McCall, CET said: "As an atheist, I’m a spiritual person, but not religious."
And I've met Christian fundamentalists who said they were "spiritual but not religious," or SBNR as I call it now.
The word "spiritual", and esp. the combination of words "spiritual but not religious" are so polluted, and mean so many different things depending on who's saying it, that if you find out that a person is "spiritual but not religious", you haven't found out anything. The words are completely and utterly meaningless, they convey no meaning at all, and are nothing but noise.
If you want people to know what you mean, do not use the words "spiritual" or "spiritual but not religious," because these can mean anythng at all, and consequently mean nothing at all.
Stevec,
Since when was “spiritual” a creedal word bound either primary or only to religion?
The next time you want to lecture us about the correct etymology of a word, I would suggest you do some homework and start with a dictionary!
The use of “spiritual” as a religious term is not the primary meaning of the word, but one of its limited secondary sub-usages.
@Mark Plus: They feel drawn to it under defective living conditions, like in the American South, and they drift away from it under better living conditions, like in New England and in most of the Western states.
Unfortunately, Christian fundamentalism appears to be on the rise here in New England as well. New congregations seem to pop up now with alarming frequency. In fact, last year, Harvard granted a PhD in biology to a young earther who promptly went to work for one of the creationist organizations.
It isn't getting better; it's getting worse.
Hi Harry H. McCall CET and stevec
The great problem we face in communicating our atheism is acknowledged when we realise how insidious religion is. When we recognise the fact that religion has so pervaded and commandeered everyday English as part of its comprehensive malignant colonisation of human experience, it becomes evident that we cannot speak of spirituality without theistic connotation. Spirituality is a perfectly normal emotive and psychological state experienced by people regardless of theism or otherwise. Equally there are so many words that have been appropriated by the religious; we need to face this fact and call attention to it. Publicise the fact.
We must evict religion and reclaim the language that expresses the full range of human emotions and experiences for genuine freethought.
Unfortunately there are some words that are so poisoned, or so religiously oriented. For example: as the religiose use it, spirituality is the alienation of humanity: the human [and the best part of being human] attributed to the non-human [read supernatural entity, god]. It is better to discard them and replace with appropriate alternatives without the stink of association.
Harry and stevec, I'd be interested in your views.
Cheers
Hi Papalinton,
You have registered some good points for consideration.
My use of the term “spiritual” is based partly on a psychologist who stated, on National Public Radio some years ago, that all people are spiritual (in a secular sense) before they are religious, if they ever become religous.
The imaginary play world of children is directly linked to their spirituality as girls play with dolls and boys either guns or cars.
The video gaming industry has incorporated this concept into new graphics that have the ability to keep gamers hooked for days on their games as processors speeds become faster and games become more lifelike. In this light, I would say that for the videoplayer, the game is very spiritual for them.
On another point, the use of the term Bible has been and is being used more in a secular sense: The Hunter’s Bible; The Fishman’s Bible; and so on.
When a famous person commits suicide, the secular new talk shows often report he that did so because he could no longer deal with his “demons”.
Here, just like the use of the term Bible, “demons” is used in a secular way and as an equal but secular opposite meaning for “spiritual”.
Harry -- That's an interesting interpretation of video games. I wonder if, somewhere down the line, someone re-invents god as an AI-based entity. That's further down the Singularity hole than I'm usually comfortable going, but the implications are interesting.
Hi Greg,
I think, for the ancient world, religion was their video game as it expanded on life and made an escape from reality possible.
For us moderns, most video games gives the player a choice: One can be a hero “god” in a land of evil or, in the case of Grand Theft Auto, one can play the villain (Satan).
Evict religion; combat Christianity ...just a few of the principles of this web site eh? How poignant and beautiful? Not. How arrogant and unproductive.
DoubleA, you're pissed off because we non-theists have the audacity to put up a few dozen websites (OK, maybe a couple of hundred)?
But it's perfectly rational that you and your kind put up maybe two hundred thousand or more websites exhorting us sinners to come to Jesus?
Sort of like the pot calling the kettle . . .
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