Christianity Was Not Responsible for American Democracy
On this 4th of July here's wishing everyone in America the very best. I love this 200+ year old experiment in modern democracy which was not the result of Christianity, contrary to many Christian defenders.
11 comments:
Happy 4th John. I just wanted to let you know that your blog has completely opened me up to other views. I still wonder at times "could it all be false?"
I think you are a very intelligent person bud. I'm so sorry for acting stupid at times condemning others to hell. You are making a difference.
Thank for the reminder, John.
Just this morning, my wife (who is British and like me has de-converted) said, "You know, even if I still was a christian, this is the one Sunday that I wouldn't have gone to church, because of all the patriotic "god loves America best" crap!".
Thank God, that Christianity isn't responsible for this mess America has become. Agreed that Christianity is not responsible for American democracy, slavery, segregation, racism, sexism, classicism, wars, imperialism, and all the other problem we have.
@Marcus
Despite, say, the Cornerstone speech says in regards to slavery?
Christianity had quite the influence on the genocide of the native americans, on American slavery, and in many ways imperialism. When you have a doctrine that advocates the killing of unbelievers, that tends to happen.
This is not to say Christianity has not done some good, but you cant take the good and to hell with the bad.
Au contraire, Marcus. Biblical references and God have been given in American history by American christians as the reasons and/or justification of:
- Slavery
- War
- Racism
- Sexism
- Imperialism
To be sure, there were other contributing factors as well, but you would do well to study your American history objectively before you let christianity off the hook so easily!
(BTW, the same scriptures were given by British christians to justify the same moral violations in British history.)
To be sure these
(And I apologize Marcus, if your comment was a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek . . . I'm so used to christians coming here and posting stuff like that for real, that I made a knee-jerk comment in reply!_
Wesley,
Oh, Marcus is for real. He is the poster child for how delusion, lunacy, and Christianity are so intertwined they're almost indistinguishable. He's Poe's law in action . . .
This is not Carrier's best work. Does he realize that we can use google? (2 minutes of research)
1. We don't even know if Solon existed, much less whether the sayings attributed to him by Plutarch or Herodotus are true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon
2. He was obviously quote mining the founding fathers. The evidence is clearly on their being religious.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
I hate waving the Bible alongside the Flag as much as Carrier does, but a poor essay like this turns people off from his position.
@Marcus: read the first chapter of Howard Zinn's 'A People's History of the United States' for some early Christian views (and subsequently fueled actions) on the native Americans encountered by the first settlers.
It's a huge book and after finishing that chapter it honestly made me embarrassed to be an American to some degree.
Stone
It didn't matter what the individual faiths of the founders were. They purposely set up a secular government. Google the Treaty of Tripoli sometime.
Just a question on how you derive Christianity was responsible for all those items?
- Racism? Christ wasn't racist. The whole "do unto others and you would have them do unto you".
- Sexism? Christianity was solely repsonible for women's rise in society. Christ treated Mary with the upmost respect and he did with other women in the Bible. No other religion honors women the way Christianity does.
- Slavery? There are various types of "slaves" mentioned in the Bible, but the ones under the Jewish households were not as we would envision slavery today. Jewish "slaves" were more like employees. They worked specific hours, went to their own homes, much like I do everyday.
- War? How do you blame Christianity on war? That is mankind my friend.
- Imperialism? To be honest, don't even know the connection. You would have to assist me with your correlation there.
How people act does not always reflect Christ and that's why I never attribute Christianity to a person other than Jesus. Paul (of the Bible) always instructed his followers to NOT pattern their lives after him, but focus their lives on Christ, because as men, we will always fail somewhere or other.
And before you write yourself off as non-religious, atheism and agnosticism are both religions. It's just an anti-God religion.
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