John Calvin Was Unfit to be a Christian Leader or Teacher of Doctrine!

That's right, so argues one informed Christian. I wholehearted agree.


John W. Loftus said...

Thanks to a Blogger named James for this link.

Andrew said...

I just want to make sure as many people as possible see that there is a threat against me in Kansas City from someone John Loftus knows. Just in case something happens I want it to be known.

strangebrew said...

'I just want to make sure as many people as possible see that there is a threat against me in Kansas City from someone John Loftus knows. Just in case something happens I want it to be known.'

Can you elaborate on this threat?
It can be probably understood why the name might be a problem...but what specifically is the threat and what is the probable reason?

The more detail you feel able to give...maybe the safer you will be!

Andrew said...

No, actually the less I say the better.

Xondor said...

I can guarantee you one thing, Andrew: it was not a son of Xenu. We never give fair warning. Happy V-Day.

On topic: I believe that Dianetics is another Atheist book, but it is far from the best.

ismellarat said...

Is the threat coming from someone frustrated with the sheer strength of your arguments?

Can you maybe link to a couple of them? I do get a little discouraged by the atheists sometimes. :)

jUUggernaut said...

Our UU minister, Peter Morales, once gave an interesting sermon about Michael Servetus who was captured in Geneva by Calvin because of his heretical ideas and then burned at the stake.

What is so upsetting is not just that Calvin was cruel, but that his Trinitarian doctrine, as Servetus demonstrated by simply reading the bible, was clearly unfounded.

As Morales writes: "Already as a young man he was troubled by the doctrine of the Trinity, which he saw as a great obstacle to extending the Christian faith to Jews and Muslims who considered the Trinity a form of polytheism. When he read the Bible as a student he was surprised to find that the Trinity is nowhere mentioned in the scriptures." ... at the age of nineteen or twenty, ... he published, in Latin, his first book, On the Errors of the Trinity. ... The book caused quite a stir. Servetus naively thought that simply pointing out the errors of the traditional theology would cause the Protestant reformers to change their position. Instead, his book was widely denounced and often confiscated by authorities.

Here is the sermon in question (stich together both parts) morales/pm_burn_the_heretic.html

But let's look at this with the benefit of hindsight. The specific tenets of any faith change over time: what was once heretical becomes mainstream, and not necessarily so after schisms. In other words: the doctrines of any religion are arbitrary.

To paraphrase the wise rabbi Tom Lehrer: "Religion is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.”

Gandolf said...

Andrew said..." No, actually the less I say the better."

Yeah suspense is usually accompanied by a degree of apprehension or anxiety.Mental uncertainty or excitement, as in awaiting a decision or outcome.Pleasurable excitement and anticipation regarding an outcome, such as the ending of a mystery novel.Held or lifted up; held or prevented from proceeding.

Kinda like faithful beliefs.We might not see god/s, might not even be any evidence available of their actual existence.And the followers of these beliefs, dont really congratulate investigation of such beliefs very much.

Nope best kept within the faith syndrome.

But just watch they are coming ! its really going to happen ! :).

John W. Loftus said...

Andrew is a liar. I don't know what the hell he's talking about. He's banned from DC yet continues posting. Ignore him. He's delusional. Or, he can produce the evidence. Evidence. That's something lacking in his beliefs too.

strangebrew said...

Andrew said...
'No, actually the less I say the better.'

So paranoid xian wet dreams of persecution....
You have let your belief twist your sad excuse for a mind...

You are a sham and a typical example of a liar for should be ashamed of yourself...but xians have a very loose understanding of the term...they tend to disregard it or project it to the nearest atheist cos jeebus lovers are poor little down trodden troopers!

Besides every xian gets a stiffy for martyrdom...they think they be jeebus!...the sickos!
Seems to make no difference if they are male or female the premise is the same ...a little suffering for jeebus warms their black little hearts!

ismellarat said...

Oh, the cynicism.

I'm sure Andrew's life is in danger because he's the coming Antichrist's main obstacle to world domination.

Like Truth Incarnate. No wonder everyone's after him, poor guy.

strangebrew said...

'Oh, the cynicism.'

Unfortunately in dealings with creobots and xians of most flavors it is the overriding attitude that sums up their extraordinary claims and the torrent of palpable nonsense to back it up...they think...or not... as the case usually is!

jUUggernaut said...

Two considerations re Andrew:

* Online etiquette: Don't feed the trolls. Ignore them. The worst you can do is to prompt them for "information".

* Real life: Don't ridicule people exhibiting signs of mental instability, plus it's a way of feeding the trolls.

Actually, a number three thrown in for free:

* If you find a typo you can keep it.

Frank Walton said...

I see evryone who disagrees with you is a troll. Nice way to keep open dialogue.

Plus word around the campfire is that the inside of Johns hat smells like a homeless joggers taint.

atimetorend said...

That is a very well written expose of the man Calvin. I guess too much of the evangelical world has Calvin's writings at its foundation for him to be thrown under the bus. Luther gets much the same treatment, I heard John Piper say of Luther, "He sinned much, but he repented much." [paraphrase]. So their sins get glossed over, while their doctrinal foundations live on. Yeah for Reformed Theology!