"Thy Will Be Done on Earth as It is in Heaven": Will God Bless Sarah Palin?

Tonight the conservative evangelical Sarah Palin will debate Joe Biden in the first and only Vice Presidental debate. But with candidate Sarah Palin’s disastrous interviews with both ABC New’s Charles Gibson and CBS New’s Katie Couric, the declining polls show increasing doubt in Palin’s experience and her ability to lead.

As I listened to various Christian radio stations and their morning talk programs this week, I’ve heard time and again the pleading of Christian talk show host for listeners to please pray for Sarah Palin in that God will give her victory in tonight’s debate.

This raises some major points:

A. If God is All Knowing, just why must limited humans tell God what He should do?

B. If God’s Will is to truly be done on earth (as it is in Heaven), then the faithful and righteous Palin should not lose (this will be based of post debate polls).

C. If Palin falls on her face tonight during the debate, just what value is her religion? God states that He would direct her knowledge ( “But when they deliver you up, don't be anxious how or what you will say, for it will be given you in that hour what you will say.” Matt 10: 19).

Finally, since tonight’s debate is in the future and millions of Christians are in prayer for God to support Sarah Palin, this debate will be a great test to see if there is a living “Heavenly Father” who hears His children cry out to Him or whether pray is nothing more than religious thinking = simpy talking to ones self.

21 comments:

Jason Long said...

Well, my guess is that God will be pretty confused with all the other Christians who will be praying for a Biden victory. He might revoke Matthew 21:22, or he might just admit that he can't accomplish a paradox (even though he invented logic, which in itself might be a paradox that defines him out of existence).

Shygetz said...

The prophecies of God cannot be forestalled...Obama is the Antichrist, and must come into power as it is written in Revelations. No prayer from the faithful, no matter how sincere, can forestall the justice of Almighty God!

PTET said...

You guys are so silly!

If Palin does well, then God has blessed her... If she crashes & burns, it's down to the fall of man.

Sheesh. I ask you!

:)

ahswan said...

Why in the world are you listening to Christian talk radio? I'm a Christian, and even I can't bring myself to do that. You simply have to find better things to do. Now, about your points:

A. Christian prayer is not telling God what to do.

B. Are you presuming that it's God's will for Palin to "win" the debate? I'm not. Besides, in the Lord's Prayer we ask for God's will to be done- presuming that it's a work in progress. Otherwise, why keep asking?

C. You're taking Matt 10:19 out of context. Palin isn't being persecuted. And, "value" doesn't matter- that's a very self-centered view of Christianity you've got.

James F. McGrath said...

There's so much that is bizarre when this type of Christian ideology and worldview faces the question of what it means in practice. For instance, one commenter mentioned the idea that Obama is the antichrist. In the conservative Christian (premillenialist) worldview, what is written in Revelation is foreordained and must come to pass. But where does that leave Palin, on such a scenario? Is she so inept at answering questions precisely because she is open to God, who is working to ensure that Revelation is fulfilled and Obama the Antichrist is elected? Shouldn't Christians vote for Obama rather than Palin in order to support the fulfillment of prophecy?

One ends up in a muddle. But the quote from the Lord's Prayer in the title shows where the Bible itself raises issues with the aforementioned predestinarian approach. How can it possibly make sense to pray "Your will be done on earth..." if God's will is always done anyway?

There's more about the whole "Obama as Antichrist" idea on my blog, for those who may be interested.

Jason said...

Spot on, ahswan.

Jason said...

I'm baffled why people choose to capitalize the word "antichrist". Anyone who is denies God and Christ is an antichrist - thus, there are many antichrists, not just one.

Kevl said...

Hi Harry,

I'm just dropping by as I saw Lee Randolf post at a friend's blog.

The whole Sarah Palin thing is something else isn't it?

You said As I listened to various Christian radio stations and their morning talk programs this week, I’ve heard time and again the pleading of Christian talk show host for listeners to please pray for Sarah Palin in that God will give her victory in tonight’s debate.

First thing, "christian" talk radio is not Christianity. It's politics.

Christian's shouldn't be praying for a Sarah Palin victory, they should be praying that she starts being God honoring.

She is flat out not qualified for the job and the God honoring thing to do would be to admit that and get off that ticket. Because they just might win - I don't understand why... but Obama is not mopping the floor with them yet.

Also, citing idiot's opinions of a fact and showing their opinions to be idiocy does not refute the fact.

You asked A. If God is All Knowing, just why must limited humans tell God what He should do?

Must? That's not at all what the Bible says. It says if are His disciples, which is to turn our thinking to His then we will be given the privileged position of being able to ask things of Him.

B. If God’s Will is to truly be done on earth (as it is in Heaven), then the faithful and righteous Palin should not lose (this will be based of post debate polls).

Actually Palin is neither faithful nor righteous. No Christian is. We have faith in Jesus Christ the Righteous. Any who claim faithfulness and righteousness of their own have not repented, they still think they are "good" people.


C. If Palin falls on her face tonight during the debate, just what value is her religion? God states that He would direct her knowledge ( “But when they deliver you up, don't be anxious how or what you will say, for it will be given you in that hour what you will say.” Matt 10: 19).


Christianity is not about winning elections, sports games or debates... though many make it out to be.

Matt 10:19 is about being brought before a worldly court because of your faith. Palin is making a mockery of her faith by depending on lies and trickery. She is hardly being held to account for her trust in the Lord. She is not trusting in Him she's trusting in the story that a political party can spin about her.

The debate is on right now, I'm recording it.. but I'm hopeful that God will let her fall on her face tonight. That her trusting in lies will be exposed.

Finally, since tonight’s debate is in the future and millions of Christians are in prayer for God to support Sarah Palin, this debate will be a great test to see if there is a living “Heavenly Father” who hears His children cry out to Him or whether pray is nothing more than religious thinking = simpy talking to ones self.

Actually it's not a test of Him at all. Those who are praying for an unqualified candidate who is also a liar to have victory based on God's honoring of her is to demand of God that He Himself lie.

Titus 1:2 says that God cannot lie. So if Palin were to have some sort of victory tonight.. it would be based on the effectiveness of her prep and spin, not because God has honored her with victory.

These "christians" you claim are praying for her victory are not praying with an intent that matches God's. So I can't imagine that God will answer them.

He says this in John 15:1-9

1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

This is not about having a person win a debate... it's about God being glorified.

God is not a puppet. Though many so called "christians" treat Him as a puppet He is not. The God of the Bible, God Almighty, Creator of the universe, doesn't dance by the strings of 300 million Americans.

Kev

normajean said...

Palin got served----big words from a so called fundy conservative, committed to Jesus Christ the Messiah. Go Barak!

Harry McCall said...

ahswan:
"Why in the world are you listening to Christian talk radio? I'm a Christian, and even I can't bring myself to do that. You simply have to find better things to do. Now, about your points:"

RE: Here in S.C. over 80% of the AM radio market is Christian in either talk or music. With that large of a market, the numbers show a large disagreement with your view.

A. Christian prayer is not telling God what to do.

RE: So why pray? If God is all good and all knowing, he’s on autopilot. Prayer is only self conversation. Even Pagan religions prayed. It's a universal religious self conversation.

B. Are you presuming that it's God's will for Palin to "win" the debate? I'm not. Besides, in the Lord's Prayer we ask for God's will to be done- presuming that it's a work in progress. Otherwise, why keep asking?

RE: The “Lord’s Prayer” is simply wishful thinking. God’s will in Heaven brought chaos as Satan rebelled as is his will on earth is now for increasing secularism.

C. You're taking Matt 10:19 out of context. Palin isn't being persecuted. And, "value" doesn't matter- that's a very self-centered view of Christianity you've got.

RE: So whoever used this verse? Those who stood before Pliny the Younger in Bithynia? Those who stood before Torquemada during the Spanish Inquisition?
Little use this promise of Jesus was since the end was always the same…death!
Basically a meaningless promise.

Harry McCall said...

Jason: "I'm baffled why people choose to capitalize the word "antichrist". Anyone who is denies God and Christ is an antichrist - thus, there are many antichrists, not just one."

RE: Jason, back it up Biblically. Quote one time where it’s used as you claim. You made a totally false accusation with no bases in Scripture. You should know better!!!

Jason said...

Jason, back it up Biblically. Quote one time where it’s used as you claim. You made a totally false accusation with no bases in Scripture. You should know better!!!

Harry, why are you getting so upset? I've haven't made an accusation, I'm merely making a point that Scripture labels anyone who denies God and Christ as being an antichrist. The proof is undeniable:

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now MANY ANTICHRISTS have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." 1 John 2:18

"MANY deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY such person is the deceiver and the antichrist." 2 John 1:7

"but EVERY spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." 1 John 4:3

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist – he denies the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22

As you've just read, I've quoted multiple Biblical references that clearly support my point. I expect an apology and/or a retraction of your claim that I've made a false accusation with no basis in Scripture. Are you mature enough to admit you're wrong in this case?

Harry McCall said...

Jason, Jason, Jason; your scriptural quotes show your ignorance.

Since I’m at work and on my lunch break, I going to give you a short class in Biblical exegesis tonight (check back here after 10:00 pm EST).

You’ll be the one giving an apology!

ahswan said...

Harry, That may be the case where I live, too... but I don't know many folks to listen to AM talk radio.

Regarding prayer, there is such a thing as conversation. That's much different than "telling God what do to." Christian prayer is actually 2-way conversation (although I know you'll reject that out of hand), much different than what you might find in other religions. That, of course, is a key point in the Old Testament.

But, I'm not going to argue with you further, as I think it would be pointless. Your responses indicate that you really don't want to seriously discuss the issues.

Jason said...

Harry,

If yours is going to be another rambling exegesis where you rhyme off book titles and red herrings like it's nobody's business, please don't bother. The verses are crystal clear: an antichrist is anyone who denies God and Christ - this is precisely what the verses say and I have no idea why you're bothering to argue the point in light of the overwhelming evidence saying you're wrong. There are "many deceivers" and there are "many antichrists". It's impossible to make these words mean something else.

Harry McCall said...

Jason, your problem is you assume far too much. This is why you are a Christian. You always seem to lack the ability to think and reason other that a programmed response...Christianity Good. Non Christian Bad.

You would make a good any religion. Christianity just got to you first and your inability to look at it objectively keeps you there.

I’ll quote no book but the Bible tonight.

Harry McCall said...

Ahswan, when the soldiers located Lincoln’s assassin John Wilkes Booth in a barn, they set fire to it in an attempt to burn him out. In the burning light of the fire a young soldier shot Booth in the neck half way paralyzing his body. Upon being carried out of the fire, the one time famous actor lifted his lifeless arms and exclaimed: “Unless. Unless.”

This is how I view prayer…“Unless. Unless.”.

As one scholar of religion stated, “For the beleiver, there is always a reason why prayer never fails.”

Harry McCall said...

The problem Jason is your wild claim: “Anyone who is denies God and Christ is an antichrist - thus, there are many antichrists, not just one.”

This first part is totally Un-Scriptural. NONE of your quotes from John mention denying God since all ancient religions believed in God / god (though not Yahweh) .

1 John 2:18
“Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.”

“παιδια εσχατη ωρα εστιν και καθως ηκουσατε οτι αντιχριστος ερχεται και νυν αντιχριστοι πολλοι γεγονασιν οθεν γινωσκομεν οτι εσχατη ωρα εστιν”

A. … εσχατη ωρα εστιν… In the Present Tense Active (It is now (85 - 90 CE) the last hour / times, that is in the first century CE)

B. … αντιχριστος… Normative singular (One antichrist only)

C. … ερχεται… 3 person singular present indicative (Only one to come / not many).

D. … νυν… Now / present time ONLY!!! In John’s day 85 - 90 CE.

E. …αντιχριστοι πολλοι (many antichrists) γεγονασιν 3 person plural perfect (completed action in the past) Many have already come some 2,000 years ago.

F. …γινωσκομεν …First person present active indicative (Now in John’s day / action in the present).

G. …εσχατη ωρα εστιν…Present tense active voice (It was in John’s own year that it was the last hour. Not today Jason!)

1 John 2: 22
“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Since verse 22 is a continuation of the time (85 -90 CE) and place of verse 18, verse 22 is an anti-Jewish statement in that Jews denied Jesus as Messiah and that their God (unlike the Greek and Roman gods) could NOT have a son.

This has totally nothing to do with today's atheism since it assumes a belief in God and Messianic theology. This is a highly anti-Semitic statement from the first century CE.

1 John 4:3
“and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.”

All the verbal action is again set in John’s own day.

…ὃ ἀκηκόατε ὅτι ἔρχεται καὶ νῦν ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἐστὶν ἤδη…

A. …ἀκηκόατε… perfect active indicative (Competed present action) to hear


B. …ἔρχεται … present (“appear” as in John’s time)

C. …ἐστὶν …present verb to be.

D. …ἤδη…adverb / already = now: in the first century CE.

2 John 1:7
“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist”

“οτι πολλοι πλανοι εξηλθον εις τον κοσμον οι μη ομολογουντες ιησουν χριστον ερχομενον εν σαρκι ουτος εστιν ο πλανος και ο αντιχριστος”

A. …εξηλθον…second aorist active indicative (to enter / come =completed action in the present)

B. …εστιν… The verse closes with the present active to “be verb” that the denial of a bodily Jesus IS NOW in John’s of day / age and not some 2,000 years later.

This a verse is aimed at Gnostics and Docetism; two unorthodox / Ur-Christian sects in John’s own day.

Jason, you have quoted nothing relevant for today. Your lack of Hellenistic Greek has hurt your exegesis of scripture.

If you want to rewrite New Testament history, then also bring the Torah into the present too since Jesus, as a Jew, kept the Torah (though in his own way).

Your poor scholarship warrants no apology!

ixoyemyth said...

After watching the debate, it was obvious Palin was coached extensively before the event. The funniest thing is that Republicans were so religiously entranced that they were duped. The reality is she is ignorant, naive and incompetant. She's unable to handle it in the reality of the political world where she will not have time to be coached. She won't be able to dismiss it with some stupid "hockey mom" remark.

Jason said...

Harry,

As per usual, you’re arguing points I haven’t made and as per usual have chosen to use this opportunity to stroke your damaged ego instead of dealing with the matter at hand.

The undeniable fact in all of the verses, the same fact you conveniently neglected to refute whilst educating the masses on Hellenistic Greek, is that there can be, and are, multiple antichrists. The first three verses I quoted refer to those denying Christ, the last verse refers to those denying God and Christ.

There’s ample Biblical proof for multiple antichrists, you’re just too caught up in yourself to admit it.

Harry McCall said...

Jason, you are so pitiful. Both you and you Christian faith are buried in the early first century and died when Jesus failed to return again.

Your singular or multiple “antichrists” are long gone NEVER to return.

Your long dead antichrist stink as much as your re-heated first century and repackaged Christianity!